T Nation

Irish, Sure You Didn't Write This?



I agree with this 100%


I disagreed with pretty much the whole thing save the ending.

"I was right about Manny Pacquiao struggling with Juan Manuel Marquez. Marquez was more cautious than I expected but Manny was there to be knocked out. If Juan was more aggressive he could have dropped Pacquiao in the fight. Manny looked like he was just fighting on auto pilot, he was trying to be more of a counter puncher and looked bored in the ring."

Marquez being cautious and counter-punching was what made him so effective in the fight. It's what made him so effective in all of their fights. Saying that 'if he was more aggressive he would have dropped Pacquiao' pretty much directly contradicts every other point he makes about 'styles' and 'counterpunchers'.

Manny was trying to counterpunch not because he was bored but because he was having so much trouble cracking the enigma that is Juan Manuel Marquez. He was trying something new. Which was good, but not enough.

The problem is that the author does not seem to know whether the main thrust of his article is that "Styles make fights" or that "Manny Pacquiao is totally shot". He ends up confusing himself, which is forgivable; then contradicting himself, which is not.

I think that if FI wrote this he better come up with a more appropriate username for starters...


It'd be a good fight and I think Pacquiao could still pull a win on mayweather. He's the more active fighter, he has a great coach, he's a powerful left handed striker, his power and speed still seem pretty stellar. Obviously it could go either way, but I think a lot of the one sided "mayweather" would destroy him, is nonsense.

hard to say, I'd really like to see this fight either way.


I agree that Manny seems to have problems with slick counter punchers like Marquez and Mayweather. Also, Floyd is bigger, stronger and faster than Marquez. Manny is susceptible to being countered with the straight right hand, which is Mayweather's best weapon. The one thing Marquez does that Mayweather doesn't (or at least hasn't lately) is throw in combination. Lately Floyd tends to pot shot with only one or two punches and doesn't throw combinations to the body and head the way Marquez does. I think Floyd beats Pacman fairly easily, but I am looking forward to seeing if I am right or wrong.


This, all of this.

At the least Irish would point out that Manny has more than "just his speed". The reason I like Floyd in the match-up is that Manny is a great smaller man against an all time great bigger man.

Their styles make it even worse for Pac. The dissadvantage in reach means Pac is even more vulnerable to a straight right, Floyd's might be the best in the business right now, and that unless he is able to exploit angles better than Mayweather he is going to be even more at risk when he tries to get in and damage Floyd. If Pac were the bigger man I might go for him, but he isn't.

Now, in the interest of comedy:

It obviously was not FightinIrish. He has come around to loving Pac. Note how his avatar is Pac-man enroute to his resounding second victory over Juan Manuel Marquez.

Cue Manny Pacquiao singing.


Robert A


good question would be how psychologically stable a man like mayweather is these days. If any of the controversy is true might get inside a guy's head. If this guy is losing his cool and assaulting women (or etc) is he going to have the discipline for an all out war with a man like pac? he seems pretty cool in the ring, but losing his temper just once and getting sloppy could be a big mistake.


That whole fight just didn't look good for Pac. He just kept moving forward most of the fight and walking into Marquez's counters. It's like he didn't care or respect Marquez. I'm not great with angles, but it didn't look like he even tried to create any. Just move forward and aim for the head, no body. In the 6th or 7th round, if I remember right, he faked stepping in and stepped to the side very quickly and caught Marquez turning for the counter. It worked great and he didn't do it for the rest of the fight, just went back to going forward and getting countered. To me Pac doesn't look just bored, he looks like a lot of fighters at the end of their careers where they just don't have the heart in it anymore and just go through the motions. I could be wrong about it, but I don't think so. Just too disappointing now.

Mayweather should be trying everything to make this fight with Pac happen, because if he doesn't and Pac does a rematch with Marquez and loses, that means less interest/money in a Mayweather vs Pac fight. Or even less interest than was lost from the previous fight.


haha well, the author makes some valid points, but i think he's off base for the most part.

Pacquaio didn't look good, but he by no means looked "shot." He looked more like he was having a bad night and Marquez threw a gameplan at him that he truly wasn't expecting. He's always had trouble with him - the man is truly his foil.

The idea that Marquez could have knocked him down is laughable. Marquez is no one punch KO artist, he's an accumulation of punishment type fighter, and there was no chance he was landing enough to do kayo damage on Pac. It just wasn't happening.

And to say that Pac looked "terrible" in recent outings is garbage. He did what he could against Mosley, who ran the whole night, and put a beating on Margarito that nobody - not Williams, not Cotto, not Clottey - could replicate. He didn't have the kayo power at that weight like say, Shane Mosley did, but he looked as fast as he ever has. He broke his damn orbital bone and nearly ended the guys career... I mean, c'mon.

That being said, I'll guarantee that Floyd sat there and watched this Marquez fight the same way Sugar Ray Leonard watched the Hagler-Mugabe fight back in the day before deciding he could beat him.

Pac looked shitty enough, for whatever reason, that Mayweather now knows in his head he can beat him. And he will. Pretty convincingly. But I've been saying this for the past couple years, and people just laughed at me. But, the one point the author makes that's true, and that I often reiterate, is that styles make fights.

That will be the difference.

BTW, I'm a far better writer than this dude too.


Agreed til the last part. lol. j/k.