T Nation

Ireland PM Lies About the Holy See


The other day I had a conversation with someone about Ireland and the Catholic Church. I was further informed that the Holy See had "interfered" with the Ireland's affairs. I found it strange that such a busy man had enough time to meddle in the business of a country he has no personal ties to and that the Bishops would just willingly step aside as so to let it happened.

Some words were thrown out like the "Cloyne Report" and Prime Minister Kenny, lots of anger on their part and frustration that I wasn't going to argue about something I had no clue about. So I did some research and this is what I found...Prime Minister Enda Kenny lied. What a surprise. But he's probably a red-headed Protestant.

I read the Cloyne report, nothing about interference: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/07/14/world/europe/14church-report.html

But, the Catholic Church had already beat up on Cloyne and their lack of acting within Canon Law and the 1996 guidelines: http://www.cloynediocese.ie/2011/04/eliott-report-30th-june-2008/

Maybe Ireland was pissed off because they were behind the slowest moving government in the world and they hadn't protected their own children (actually there was only one case that appeared since 1997).

The 1996 guidelines properly called the Child Sexual Abuse: Framework for a Church Response gave instructions in how to deal with the situation of child abuse, but the Diocese of Cloyne decided not to listen...again: http://www.cps.dublindiocese.ie/uploads/csaframework.pdf

The Pope actually did meddle somewhat, but his actions were much different than what the PM said: http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2011/09/the-holy-seersquos-response-to-the-cloyne-report

I tried to figure out where the PM was getting his information, and unless someone can find something that I can't the man's basis for saying the Holy See interfered was because "anger and frustration." So, remember kids next time you are angry and frustrated you can lie and slander the people that help you out so much.

Read more: http://catholicleague.org/release.php?id=2227

Edit: Posted the Cloyne Report

Edit 2: Posted the 1996 Guidelines.

Edit 3: Posted CSA and the firsthings.com article

Edit 4: The post originally said something uncharitable about the PM probably being a red-headed narrow back and I changed it to Protestant and shortened the sentence.

Edit 5: Posted last Catholic League article and put the word "probably" back into the sentence since I hadn't noticed I took it out. Apologies.


Whilst no ones could know what he truly believes in, I'm pretty sure that Enda Kenny was raised a Catholic.


lol even a quick wikipedia search shows his affiliation as roman catholic


[i]?As a member of the Catholic Church, I want to see the Church of which I am a member as absolutely above reproach in the issue of this and other areas. And for that reason, my claim in the Dail still stands, because this was a statutory commission of inquiry.

And in 2006, and 2007 and in 2009, there were requests for information and assistance to the Vatican by the Murphy Commission and in each of these cases that request was either refused or rejected."[/i]



I was right. You'd ignore the evidence that he lied and go for the one thing that I made a joke about.

That's cool, at least you now looked at the evidence.

I didn't look it up, but I did figure he was Catholic (being it Ireland). When I wrote it, it was a joke (figured Tirib would see it and come at me with that he was actually more Catholic than me or something), but nevertheless I am glad ya'll got to looked into the evidence. :slight_smile:

Edit: wrote third paragraph.


Don't try and backtrack now, and I see you've edited your original post to include "probably".

You made an assumption, and now it's blown back up in your face.

The thing that's most amusing about this? The fact that you made this thread in another attempt to make Catholics look 'persecuted'. Oh my. It wasn't a joke, don't try to play it off as one.


Yes, because I edited it the first time to put a couple of links, then I edited it some more, and then I edited and put the entire sentence in, and I edited again to shorten the sentence. If you want I'll put all my edits (that I can remember) in the OP.

Really did I? No, I think I made it because the Prime Minister of Ireland lied about the Holy See blatantly.

What you don't think that there aren't Catholics that hate the Catholic Church, the Pope, and other Catholics?

Edit: Not only did he lie, he admitted he lied and said the reason he lied was "frustration and anger."


With the amount of self-loathing religion seems to perpetuate, I would be shocked if there wasn't.




Since you brought up persecution, I thought I'd post something about some home grown persecution of a Catholic mother (personal friend, actually) by Perez Hilton and others who support the gay community: http://datechguyblog.com/2011/09/19/perez-hilton-vs-catholic-mom-stacy-trasancos/