Iraqi Lawmakers and US Presence

[quote]pat36 wrote:
Considering the source this whole story is not worth wiping ones ass with. Has anybody looked into Democracy Now!? They make Lennin look like a capitalist. Yet, lixy will criticize CNN or Fox news as an invalid source. Sheesh, democracy now is garbage at best, a bunch of America haters/ conspiracy theorists.[/quote]

America haters? They’re Americans, you moron!

As for your questioning of the source, here you go:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/05/africa/ME-GEN-Iraq-Politics.php

http://www.pr-inside.com/iraqi-parliament-demands-say-in-any-r144836.htm
http://www.alternet.org/audits/53230/

If those sources are still not worth “wiping one’s ass with”, let me know, I have some more to spare.

[quote]lixy wrote:
JeffR wrote:
Now you are being silly. The people vote for various levels of government with the full understanding that some positions carry more weight and say than others.

Sorry, lad. A referendum will always be most legitimate. Unilateral decisions by heads of states will always be the least legitimate in my book.

I need to pin you down on this. I sense that any single American advisor would be used by you to justify not apologizing for your imperialist comments.

Give me a number and a sense of what you consider leaving Iraq.

I’d consider you left Iraq when there’s no military personnel on their soil. Up to a hundred to ensure the protection of diplomats is OK.

What do you consider “leaving Iraq”?

Then I can ask you directly at a future date to rescind your earlier crap.

I’ll be happy to. But if I were you, I wouldn’t hold my breath. You’re obviously not leaving anytime soon.

Yes, blame it on the terrorists. Second, plenty of people were dying in Iraq in shredders, being raped, and dying of hunger. Iraq was CERTAINLY not peaceful nor benign prior to the invasion.

Relatively, it certainly was peaceful prior to the invasion.

There are really no words to describe the current mess.

What would you say is a better cause to die for: uday’s lust or for a Democratic Iraq?

Uday? Sorry, not familiar with that. Please explain.

But something tells me that you’re trying to compare the US military to Al-Qaeda, and say “look, they’re a lot worse!”. If you don’t see what is wrong with that, I’m certainly not gonna point it out for you.

You and your sweaty little pals should shout in the streets against the next guy who is beheaded. Then we can talk.

Again, if the best you can do is compare yourselves to Al-Qaeda or some whackee group of criminals, don’t expect me to point out the ridicule of that. I should bite you in the face…eventually.

Otherwise, we know the slogans. It had little to nothing to do with Iraq and everything to do with penis envy.

Oh! So, the whole world is jealous?

Gotta wonder why Americans joined the protests…

Will you pledge to give equal air time to positive actions in Iraq?

Air time of what? I don’t run any station.

You obviously cannot fathom my analogy. I’ll flesh it out: Adults must leave the nest. At some point their mistakes become their own.

Oh, I do. It’s just a matter of how far back you’re willing to go. Comparing Iraq four years after the invasion to the US a couple of centuries after the independence is ludicrous. I just pointed that out.

Point four: lixy will never support any military action against any predominately Muslim nation no matter what the provocation.

The iranian government is directly involved in killing American troops.

And that’s happening on US soil?

No.

Patently false. Again, if it’s Muslim, you are conveniently blind to it’s faults.

That is nothing but blatant slander. How can you throw such accusation without proof?

You can accuse me of being anti-capitalist, anti-empirialist, anti-interventionist, and I’ll be Ok with it, because it’ll be true. But to say that I am somehow biased towards Muslims is nothing but a lie.

The only Muslim I’m biased towards is the prophet Muhammed.

How can you expect me to still grant you good faith, when you insist on pissing me off with such baseless accusations?

I’ll be expecting apologies.[/quote]

Are you fucking kidding me, If a muslim country does something you give them a pass. Hell you give Iran a pass for attacking our troops.(do you also give OBL a pass?)

[quote]John S. wrote:
Are you fucking kidding me, If a muslim country does something you give them a pass. Hell you give Iran a pass for attacking our troops.(do you also give OBL a pass?)[/quote]

I think some folks might be assuming Lixy is for the enemy because he voices opinions against some US actions.

Lixy, correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t your viewpoints basically stem from a pacifistic attitude… or at least a concern for innocent civilians in regions of conflict?

Whether or not Bush feels that “you are either with us or against us” the issues of the world are seldom that simple.

[quote]vroom wrote:
John S. wrote:
Are you fucking kidding me, If a muslim country does something you give them a pass. Hell you give Iran a pass for attacking our troops.(do you also give OBL a pass?)

I think some folks might be assuming Lixy is for the enemy because he voices opinions against some US actions.

Lixy, correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t your viewpoints basically stem from a pacifistic attitude… or at least a concern for innocent civilians in regions of conflict?

Whether or not Bush feels that “you are either with us or against us” the issues of the world are seldom that simple.[/quote]

Did I ever say things where that simple. But I ask you Vroom please read lixy’s posts in his threads, All condemn America but give the Muslim nations a free pass.

[quote]John S. wrote:
Did I ever say things where that simple. But I ask you Vroom please read lixy’s posts in his threads, All condemn America but give the Muslim nations a free pass.[/quote]

Your first part is right… he does condemn American actions a lot.

However, when he discusses Iran’s view of the situation, he is not “giving them a free pass”.

A lot of people here never consider world issues from other viewpoints, and it can be useful to do so, whether or not you agree with them.

[quote]vroom wrote:
John S. wrote:
Did I ever say things where that simple. But I ask you Vroom please read lixy’s posts in his threads, All condemn America but give the Muslim nations a free pass.

Your first part is right… he does condemn American actions a lot.

However, when he discusses Iran’s view of the situation, he is not “giving them a free pass”.

A lot of people here never consider world issues from other viewpoints, and it can be useful to do so, whether or not you agree with them.[/quote]

Bullshit, the only thing he says is America has bases all over the world. WHAT EVER IRAN DOES THATS ALL HE FUCKING SAYS. Ask about bin laddin all he says is AMERICA HAS FUCKING BASES ALL OVER THE WORLD. Never mind the attacks over in europe I guess he would still say AMERICA HAS BASES ALL OVER THE WORLD.

[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Considering the source this whole story is not worth wiping ones ass with. Has anybody looked into Democracy Now!? They make Lennin look like a capitalist. Yet, lixy will criticize CNN or Fox news as an invalid source. Sheesh, democracy now is garbage at best, a bunch of America haters/ conspiracy theorists.

America haters? They’re Americans, you moron!

As for your questioning of the source, here you go:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/05/africa/ME-GEN-Iraq-Politics.php

http://www.pr-inside.com/iraqi-parliament-demands-say-in-any-r144836.htm
http://www.alternet.org/audits/53230/

If those sources are still not worth “wiping one’s ass with”, let me know, I have some more to spare.[/quote]

So their Americans. They are still a bunch of anti-american propagandists of whose opinion I could care less.

I don’t have more time to spare, I have a job.

[quote]John S. wrote:
Bullshit, the only thing he says is America has bases all over the world. WHAT EVER IRAN DOES THATS ALL HE FUCKING SAYS. Ask about bin laddin all he says is AMERICA HAS FUCKING BASES ALL OVER THE WORLD. Never mind the attacks over in europe I guess he would still say AMERICA HAS BASES ALL OVER THE WORLD.[/quote]

There is a difference between him telling you “why” something is happening, from the point of view of those doing it, and him telling you that he agrees with what is happening.

Heck, I’m not saying that he is correct in his interpretation of “why”, but it isn’t the same as supporting those groups.

As an exercise, perhaps you could offer an explanation of what governments and populations in the Middle East feel about recent history with respect to the US and/or “the West”?

The answer should be something other than “who cares”. I don’t know what the answer is myself… but Lixy offers a possible point of view. Figuring out what it actually is could be powerful in terms of moving towards long term peace at some point in the future.

[quote]vroom wrote:
John S. wrote:
Bullshit, the only thing he says is America has bases all over the world. WHAT EVER IRAN DOES THATS ALL HE FUCKING SAYS. Ask about bin laddin all he says is AMERICA HAS FUCKING BASES ALL OVER THE WORLD. Never mind the attacks over in europe I guess he would still say AMERICA HAS BASES ALL OVER THE WORLD.

There is a difference between him telling you “why” something is happening, from the point of view of those doing it, and him telling you that he agrees with what is happening.

Heck, I’m not saying that he is correct in his interpretation of “why”, but it isn’t the same as supporting those groups.

As an exercise, perhaps you could offer an explanation of what governments and populations in the Middle East feel about recent history with respect to the US and/or “the West”?

The answer should be something other than “who cares”. I don’t know what the answer is myself… but Lixy offers a possible point of view. Figuring out what it actually is could be powerful in terms of moving towards long term peace at some point in the future.[/quote]

He doesn’t, he throws out stupid shit to get people distracted. Its a very shitty way to do stuff, but as he well knows some people(I.e. you) will try to step in and explain him. If Lixy wants to explain himself let him fucking explain himself don’t give him an excuse so he can say “Yeah thats what I ment”. I don’t know what’s more pathetic lixy or your desire to argue with me on every subject.

[quote]pat36 wrote:
I don’t have more time to spare, I have a job.
[/quote]

CNN is reporting this now, by the way…

[quote]John S. wrote:
He doesn’t, he throws out stupid shit to get people distracted. Its a very shitty way to do stuff, but as he well knows some people(I.e. you) will try to step in and explain him. If Lixy wants to explain himself let him fucking explain himself don’t give him an excuse so he can say “Yeah thats what I ment”. I don’t know what’s more pathetic lixy or your desire to argue with me on every subject.[/quote]

LOL.

Dude, you have a serious lack of reading comprehension skills.

However, you are right, I’m going to quit wasting my time trying to get you to see and understand the issues that are obviously hidden to you.

[quote]John S. wrote:
Are you fucking kidding me, If a muslim country does something you give them a pass. Hell you give Iran a pass for attacking our troops.(do you also give OBL a pass?)[/quote]

It’s got nothing to do with them being Muslims or not.

I didn’t give Iran a pass for attacking your troops (I’m assuming you’re referring to the Iran-proxy-war thread). I merely put things into perspective by showing that Iran is literally surounded by US troops, and if they feel their sovereignty threatened, they’re probably right.

I am against the current regime in Iran, but a change at the cost of innocent civilians is simply undefendable IMHO.

If you bothered to look closer, you’d see that in the current tension between Tehran and Washington, the US is not just a victim.

I’ll reiterate my question: How would you feel if another country called you “axis of evil”, invaded Canada and Mexico, then proceeded to station warships along your coasts? Keep in mind that the US is actively working to destabilize Iran by funding separatist movements. A recent CIA leak shows a lot of your money going to propaganda directed against Tehran.

So, if Iranians were killing American troops in the US, I’ll be among the first to condemn that. But if they’re somehow giving weapons to Iraqis whose goal is to drive you out of Iraq, I think to myself that I would have probably done the same and so would you. You can’t surround a country, throw threats at it, and expect them to sit quietly awaiting the day you decide to invade them.

[quote]lixy wrote:
John S. wrote:
Are you fucking kidding me, If a muslim country does something you give them a pass. Hell you give Iran a pass for attacking our troops.(do you also give OBL a pass?)

It’s got nothing to do with them being Muslims or not.

I didn’t give Iran a pass for attacking your troops (I’m assuming you’re referring to the Iran-proxy-war thread). I merely put things into perspective by showing that Iran is literally surounded by US troops, and if they feel their sovereignty threatened, they’re probably right.

I am against the current regime in Iran, but a change at the cost of innocent civilians is simply undefendable IMHO.

If you bothered to look closer, you’d see that in the current tension between Tehran and Washington, the US is not just a victim.

I’ll reiterate my question: How would you feel if another country called you “axis of evil”, invaded Canada and Mexico, then proceeded to station warships along your coasts? Keep in mind that the US is actively working to destabilize Iran by funding separatist movements. A recent CIA leak shows a lot of your money going to propaganda directed against Tehran.

So, if Iranians were killing American troops in the US, I’ll be among the first to condemn that. But if they’re somehow giving weapons to Iraqis whose goal is to drive you out of Iraq, I think to myself that I would have probably done the same and so would you. You can’t surround a country, throw threats at it, and expect them to sit quietly awaiting the day you decide to invade them.[/quote]

Listen you have showed your hand once again. You are for them killing are soldiers over there. Sure they got called evil, We where not going to fucking attack them them if they keep this up the only thing left to do is turn Iran into the biggest piece of glass.

[quote]John S. wrote:
Bullshit, the only thing he says is America has bases all over the world. WHAT EVER IRAN DOES THATS ALL HE FUCKING SAYS. Ask about bin laddin all he says is AMERICA HAS FUCKING BASES ALL OVER THE WORLD. Never mind the attacks over in europe I guess he would still say AMERICA HAS BASES ALL OVER THE WORLD.[/quote]

When I refer to the US having lots of bases, it’s in a context, not to excuse terrorists. Next time you feel like accusing me of something, have some quotes handy so I can walk you through all the words you didn’t understand and the points you missed.

By the way, how old are you? I’m really curious. Your writing and lack of understand of basic issues suggest that you’re a teen. Care to confirm that?

[quote]lixy wrote:
John S. wrote:
Bullshit, the only thing he says is America has bases all over the world. WHAT EVER IRAN DOES THATS ALL HE FUCKING SAYS. Ask about bin laddin all he says is AMERICA HAS FUCKING BASES ALL OVER THE WORLD. Never mind the attacks over in europe I guess he would still say AMERICA HAS BASES ALL OVER THE WORLD.

When I refer to the US having lots of bases, it’s in a context, not to excuse terrorists. Next time you feel like accusing me of something, have some quotes handy so I can walk you through all the words you didn’t understand and the points you missed.

By the way, how old are you? I’m really curious. Your writing and lack of understand of basic issues suggest that you’re a teen. Care to confirm that?[/quote]

I’m old enough to know that a lot of what you say is pure bullshit. The way you write your posts out(In all your posts anti-america) you use the bases. When we say something about Iran you mention the bases. If you truly do not mean to use them as an excuse then you have a very shitty ability to write out what you mean.

I would like to jump in here on a couple of points. First off, America will never leave Iraq, America has bases all over the world…Right, but not in Uzbekistan. They wanted us out and we left. I am sure, when the time comes, we would do the same in Iraq.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2005/11/22/us_closes_air_base_in_uzbekistan_amid_uprising_dispute/

The map of Iran.

Yes, America has forces on both sides of Iran. But what the hell? The Taliban were enemies of Iran and we destroyed them. We did this because they were harboring OBL and because of 9-11. I would hope that the crying candle burning peaceniks in Tehran, who were beaten by anti-Western Revolutionary Guards, would know this. Everyone in Iran should know why we are next door. Hell their president went to the United Nations, maybe he should have stopped by ground zero.

Next, We are in Iraq. Likewise, Iraq was a hostile enemy of the Iranians. So, we basically defeated 2 enemies of the Iranian regime. What do they have to worry about? Enless they are aiding the terrorists in both countries, they should have nothing to fear and should be thanking us for doing them a favor.

Next, yes, America is on both sides of Iran.

You ask, what if Iran was in both Canada and Mexico. Wouldn’t the US try to stop them? I would say Yes we would. And you would condemn us, the same way you condmen our actions against Cuba, against Nicaragua, against Chile, against Grenada, against all of the Latin American countries which were in peril of being invaded by the Soviet Union’s proxy forces.

So yes, we did have enemies on our borders and yes we did what we had to do to destory these enemies, but somehow when Iran acts in self defence it is ok, and when the US does so, it is evil.

You complain time and time again that the US starves Cuba, we actually supply 10% of their food. (Source NBC News, Matt Lauer was there this week). When Iran supplies explosives for a car bomb which kills 50 civilians, the deaths are blamed on US intervention and are ok because Iran is acting logically considering it is sorounded on both sides by an enemy.

An enemy of it’s own choosing.

[quote]lixy wrote:

I’ll reiterate my question: How would you feel if another country called you “axis of evil”, invaded Canada and Mexico, then proceeded to station warships along your coasts? Keep in mind that the US is actively working to destabilize Iran by funding separatist movements. A recent CIA leak shows a lot of your money going to propaganda directed against Tehran.

[/quote]

I already addressed some of that above, but let me go further.

Warships on their coasts? I remember an incident where the Iranian navy captured British sailors, not the other way around. Who’s threatening who here?

So what if CIA money is going towards propaganda to distable Iran? You said you would welcome regime change if there were not for the loss of lives. Either you are for regime change or not. Would you rather Saudi Arabia were backing insurgents and using propaganda to disrupt Iran? Who exactly do you want to disrupt Iran?

Before you reply to my above post by saying that Bush called Iran one of the Axis of Evil and threatened them, might I remind you that Iran has called America Great Satan for almost 20 years, pre-dating the Axis of evil speech.

In other words, it’s ok for Iran to insult us, threaten us, hold our embassy employees hostage, use proxies to kill our marines, civilians, peacekeepers, and kidnap numerous people, kill some and ransom others, 20 years ago in Lebanon, and supply arms to the Taliban, Al Qaeda in Iraq and Sadr’s militia today, but not vice versa? Somehow we’re the bad guy here and Iran is the victim? Please tell me how that works.

Your anti-American bias is clearly showing.

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
So what if CIA money is going towards propaganda to distable Iran?[/quote]

Ahahahahahaha!

Yes, so what, indeed.

What’s so funny Vroom? The finer points of my post must have went over your head. Let me break some of it into powerpoints so it’s easier to comprehend and maybe I can get an intelligent response:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
*So what if CIA money is going towards propaganda to distable Iran?

*Would you rather Saudi Arabia were backing insurgents and using propaganda to disrupt Iran?

(al-qaeda…get it?)

*Who exactly do you want to disrupt Iran?

*In other words, it’s ok for Iran to insult us, threaten us, hold our embassy employees hostage, use proxies to kill our marines, civilians, peacekeepers, and kidnap numerous people, kill some and ransom others, 20 years ago in Lebanon, and supply arms to the Taliban, Al Qaeda in Iraq and Sadr’s militia today, but not vice versa?

*Somehow we’re the bad guy here and Iran is the victim?

*Please tell me how that works.

[/quote]

I hope that helped.

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
What’s so funny Vroom? The finer points of my post must have went over your head. Let me break some of it into powerpoints so it’s easier to comprehend and maybe I can get an intelligent response:
[/quote]

Look, it’s fine if you want to go to war with Iran.

However, don’t sit there and tell me that your government is working to bring down a nation and then complain about any warlike acts that nation is committing.