T Nation

Iraqi Bitch Session

I figure we need a single thread to air this out. Perhaps we could keep iraq-creep from happening in other forum topix? May be just a little? I know I am smoking crack, but it’s worth a shot right? Ain’t my hard drive space.

So get your America bashing on! Get you Iraq war hard-on here!

Get out. Let a sectarian theocracy (more like a couple, over a couple of regions) take over.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Get out. Let a sectarian theocracy (more like a couple, over a couple of regions) take over.[/quote]

McCain says al qaeda is getting training in Iran, so I guess we have to stay, cause he has a lot of foreign policy knowledge.

[quote]100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Get out. Let a sectarian theocracy (more like a couple, over a couple of regions) take over.

McCain says al qaeda is getting training in Iran, so I guess we have to stay, cause he has a lot of foreign policy knowledge.

[/quote]

Al Qaeda is in Iraq now, and continues to funnel in foreign fighters. But, so what? If they can conquer Iraq (seriously doubt it), or recieve safe harbor from whoever does end up running Iraq (more likely) it just makes things easier on us.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Get out. Let a sectarian theocracy (more like a couple, over a couple of regions) take over.

McCain says al qaeda is getting training in Iran, so I guess we have to stay, cause he has a lot of foreign policy knowledge.

Al Qaeda is in Iraq now, and continues to funnel in foreign fighters. But, so what? If they can conquer Iraq (seriously doubt it), or recieve safe harbor from whoever does end up running Iraq (more likely) it just makes things easier on us.[/quote]

You missed the point. Al-Qaeda would get busy destroying Iran the minute your troops get out of there.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Get out. Let a sectarian theocracy (more like a couple, over a couple of regions) take over.

McCain says al qaeda is getting training in Iran, so I guess we have to stay, cause he has a lot of foreign policy knowledge.

Al Qaeda is in Iraq now, and continues to funnel in foreign fighters. But, so what? If they can conquer Iraq (seriously doubt it), or recieve safe harbor from whoever does end up running Iraq (more likely) it just makes things easier on us.

You missed the point. Al-Qaeda would get busy destroying Iran the minute your troops get out of there.[/quote]

Al Qaeda isn’t going to destroy Iran. Not even close. So why would I even factor that into the topic?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Get out. Let a sectarian theocracy (more like a couple, over a couple of regions) take over.

McCain says al qaeda is getting training in Iran, so I guess we have to stay, cause he has a lot of foreign policy knowledge.

Al Qaeda is in Iraq now, and continues to funnel in foreign fighters. But, so what? If they can conquer Iraq (seriously doubt it), or recieve safe harbor from whoever does end up running Iraq (more likely) it just makes things easier on us.

You missed the point. Al-Qaeda would get busy destroying Iran the minute your troops get out of there.

Al Qaeda isn’t going to destroy Iran. Not even close. So why would I even factor that into the topic?[/quote]

That they can’t achieve it doesn’t mean they won’t try.

Iraq war bashing =/= America bashing.

This thread is therefore a misnomer. Congrats!

Not really, I am against the war. It is a disaster, but I do not bash America and I do not cheer when suicide bombers kill innocents in markets or mosques.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20080318-1310-iraq-foreignminister.html

Check out what the Iraq Foreign minister says.

That vast majority of freedom and democracy loving moderates should be able to handle the tiny minority of sectarian jihadists within their midst. I can think of better uses of $12b a month, right here in our country.

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20080318-1310-iraq-foreignminister.html

Check out what the Iraq Foreign minister says.[/quote]

That fscker is 1) the same puppet foreign minister installed by Paul Bremer in 2003, 2) a Kurd, 3) a member of a government whose “legitimacy” is only enforced through force.

The US getting out of Iraq would indeed be disastrous for him. I’m thinking plenty of people want his scalp.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
100meters wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Get out. Let a sectarian theocracy (more like a couple, over a couple of regions) take over.

McCain says al qaeda is getting training in Iran, so I guess we have to stay, cause he has a lot of foreign policy knowledge.

Al Qaeda is in Iraq now, and continues to funnel in foreign fighters. But, so what? If they can conquer Iraq (seriously doubt it), or recieve safe harbor from whoever does end up running Iraq (more likely) it just makes things easier on us.[/quote]

Personally I expect the Shia to take over with Iranian support, and if so they’ll do the AQ routing out work for you. Alternatively there may be a Sunni/Shia split. I really doubt the Kurds are going to get their own piece of land though.

Also, while you won’t find a common enemy with Iran I still think depending on how America continues to approach the situation you might end up with an ally in Shia majority Iraq, judging by how that section is responding to opinion polls.

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Not really, I am against the war. It is a disaster, but I do not bash America and I do not cheer when suicide bombers kill innocents in markets or mosques.
[/quote]

Quoted for truth.

[quote]will to power wrote:
Also, while you won’t find a common enemy with Iran I still think depending on how America continues to approach the situation you might end up with an ally in Shia majority Iraq, judging by how that section is responding to opinion polls. [/quote]

Not a snowball’s chance in hell. Washington knows that, and that’s why they need to find new excuses to keep their troops on the ground. America doesn’t give two shits about allies. What it wants is people who fear it.

The Shi’a majority in Iraq didn’t forget that Saddam was supported by Americans. They didn’t forget that the latter cheered as the dictator slaughtered their brothers and sisters in faith across the border. They won’t forget that the US tries to assassinate their leaders. They watch helplessly as their holy sites are blown to pieces by terrorists whose presence correlates perfectly with the US invasion.

They can’t possibly overlook the gang rape and murder of 14-years old Abeer Qassim and her family. They can’t forgive the missiles fired at Kerbala, one of their Holy Cities. They will always remember the US-imposed sanctions that led to so much death and suffering over there.

The majority wants security and stability. That much is certain. But it doesn’t mean they don’t have a gutural hatred of the invader that will persist in at least one generation.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20080318-1310-iraq-foreignminister.html

Check out what the Iraq Foreign minister says.

That fscker is 1) the same puppet foreign minister installed by Paul Bremer in 2003, 2) a Kurd, 3) a member of a government whose “legitimacy” is only enforced through force.

The US getting out of Iraq would indeed be disastrous for him. I’m thinking plenty of people want his scalp.[/quote]

The only thing that will please you is if the US fails in creating a state in Iraq. So basically, you wish the Iraqis to live in wretched poverty and misery so you can continue to hate the US.

You’re a great guy.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Not a snowball’s chance in hell. Washington knows that, and that’s why they need to find new excuses to keep their troops on the ground. America doesn’t give two shits about allies. What it wants is people who fear it.
[/quote]

Yeah, like you, who hates America, would know what it wants.

[quote]lixy wrote:
The Shi’a majority in Iraq didn’t forget that Saddam was supported by Americans. They didn’t forget that the latter cheered as the dictator slaughtered their brothers and sisters in faith across the border. They won’t forget that the US tries to assassinate their leaders. They watch helplessly as their holy sites are blown to pieces by terrorists whose presence correlates perfectly with the US invasion.

They can’t possibly overlook the gang rape and murder of 14-years old Abeer Qassim and her family. They can’t forgive the missiles fired at Kerbala, one of their Holy Cities. They will always remember the US-imposed sanctions that led to so much death and suffering over there.

The majority wants security and stability. That much is certain. But it doesn’t mean they don’t have a gutural hatred of the invader that will persist in at least one generation.[/quote]

Man, your hatred of the US is turning into fantasy.

I’m sure the shia will not forget how AQ bombed their people day after day, took down their Grand Mosque in Karbala and made their life hell.

It’s funny, the people of Iraq were given a chance at greatness and because of the acts of radicals, they are blowing it. They need only to look to Japan and South Korea as examples of how great their lives could be. That’s what your fantasy, based on your prejudice and hatred, denies these people.

How come the Shia are in charge of the government and people like the late Ayatollah Hakim and Ayatollah Sistani is (and was) supporters of the US?

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
The only thing that will please you is if the US fails in creating a state in Iraq. So basically, you wish the Iraqis to live in wretched poverty and misery so you can continue to hate the US.
[/quote]

You’re not making any sense.

What will please me (along with the crushing majority of the world) is for the US to:

  • stop invading other countries,
  • stop supporting the overthrowing of democratically elected regimes,
  • stop financing and arming tyrants and/or apartheid regimes,
  • stop the incessant arms’ race,
  • stop claiming the known Universe as its sphere of influence.

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
I’m sure the shia will not forget how AQ bombed their people day after day, took down their Grand Mosque in Karbala and made their life hell. [/quote]

So…? The “Shia majority in Iraq” which I referred to already considers Al-Qaeda as an enemy. Always has, always will.

What the heck are you raving about? What am I denying these people? You are the one refusing to “grant” them the right of self-determination and claim to know where their best interests lie.

Ah, honey, you must be a kid with no other access to the Iraqi reality than White House rhetoric and right-wing media.

Hakim was a staunch opposer of American presence in Iraq. He stated (and that’s a direct quote) “we do not put confidence in the Americans, they have always acted against the interests of the Iraqi people”. Sure, he acknowledged that Saddam is gone thanks to you, but who doesn’t?

As for Sistani, he is utterly irrelevant in anything but religious matters.

Just to make sure we’re on the same page, what exactly is your point? Are you trying to refute the point I made about the “Shia majority in Iraq”?

Folks, once they’ve killed enough of each other till there’s a winner (or a couple, if Iraq breaks up), get their women to know their role, and religious minorities properly under their thumb, there’ll be some peace in Iraq. Again, just need a couple of sectarian Saddamesque types to emerge.

The American military isn’t brutal enough to keep the sects from each other’s throat. Or, to stop the dumping of women’s bodies into ditches. Or, the killing and dhimmitude of Christians.