T Nation

Iraq the Vote

Initial estimates put Iraqi voter turnout at 72%. Better than we can muster in our own country.

Iraqis interviewed on TV seem joyous for the opportunity to let their vote speak for them.

They’ve had a dictator to do that for them in the past.

More recently, they’ve had a left-wing media telling the rest of the world how ‘premature’ holding elections are.

I think the Iraqi people just gave the finger to those elitists who think they should decide when a people can be free.

Well stated rainjack!

There is a good lesson for us to learn in this. If we continue to be complacent about voting and being politicaly active, eventualy the decisions wil be made for us, not necessicarily by someone we agree with either.
Our last elections showed alot about the character, grit and determination of a large part of America.THERE IS NONE! People complaining about the long wait in line. They should try waiting 30 years under a brutal dictator.
Poor weather conditions.It was cold in those long lines! At least its not raining bullets and shrapnell.Maybee they should have taken an umbrella. At least they didn’t need blast protection from the occasional carbomb.
“We don’t like Bush.Wah,Wah,Wah,Our party lost!”.Bush is in his second term.He’s going to be gone in four years.It’s not going to take a coalition of armed forces to remove him,unlike the action that had to be taken to remove Hussein.
“A bunch of votes were discarded!”. Learn how to vote Dummies. Do you know how Hussein discarded votes?Public Execution.If someone in the Iraqi “governing body” disagreed with him, they were killed.If part of the population rallied against him-new test subjects for chemical warefare.

I am elated that the Iraqi people now have a chance to vote.I am extraordinarily impressed with the effort of the coalitions that have made it possible. For the naysayers who will say its premature or poorly planned-Screw you. You had your chance.If you thought it was too cold for you that day, you don’t have a valid opinion.

“… Do you know how Hussein discarded votes? Public Execution…”

That’s a priceless statement, mindeffer01!

Wow…like many of you, after hearing about the Iraqi elections, I too reflected on our spoiled, uninvolved,often complacent electorate.
It can’t be emphasized enough:

1)IRAQIS RISKED THEIR LIVES TO VOTE…AND SOME DID!!!

2)A LOT OF AMERICANS AND NON-IRAQIS HAVE DIED OR WERE MAIMED TO AFFORD THESE PEOPLE THESE FREEDOMS!

And we wined and complained about the lines WE had to stand in??? Try standing in a line when at any moment a suicide bomber could wipe you and the whole election place out…or you and your loved one could be killed by an RPG lobbed into the voting area…

We can debate the War all we want…I’m still not convinced that it was the right thing to do…

…But I’m not an Iraqi with that feeling that only free-expression can give someone…

Mufasa

The best part is that whenever they’d show footage of the Iraqis after they voted, they’d all be exclaiming “thank you George Bush!” Yeah, they don’t want us over there…riiiight.

It would appear Zarqawi’s lieutenants recently arrested were of considerable importance, as the level of violence promised has not been observed.

There almost isn’t anything better than seeing democracy breakout in Iraq, and the liberal media (and Ted Kennedy) proven wrong! :slight_smile:

I originally thought this was a good idea, but I have heard Both John Kerry and Ted Kennedy speak about this election, and now know that Democracy and Freedom are bad things.

Early reports of 72% turnout seem to have been a little inflated.

Estimates are being scaled back to around 60% turnout.

Still a “resounding success”, nonetheless.

Gents,

I just hope that it all goes well and the Iraqi people get a good democratically elected gouvernment, which can ultimately unify the country and end the bloodshed. I was against the war, and still am; but I always thought that this was all about Iraq and its people, and not internal US politics. I think we all should show our respect and keep the bickering to a minimum.

Makkun

[quote]makkun wrote:
Gents,

I just hope that it all goes well and the Iraqi people get a good democratically elected gouvernment, which can ultimately unify the country and end the bloodshed. I was against the war, and still am; but I always thought that this was all about Iraq and its people, and not internal US politics. I think we all should show our respect and keep the bickering to a minimum.

Makkun[/quote]

Maybe you should send this post to John Kerry, or Ted “didn’t-mean-to-kill-her” Kennedy.

rainjack,

[quote]rainjack wrote:
makkun wrote:
Gents,

I just hope that it all goes well and the Iraqi people get a good democratically elected gouvernment, which can ultimately unify the country and end the bloodshed. I was against the war, and still am; but I always thought that this was all about Iraq and its people, and not internal US politics. I think we all should show our respect and keep the bickering to a minimum.

Makkun

Maybe you should send this post to John Kerry, or Ted “didn’t-mean-to-kill-her” Kennedy.[/quote]

They didn’t post here. Maybe you could just pass it along. :wink:

Makkun

I’m not going to ‘keep it down’ wrt calling the ABB crowd out for being the elitist cowards that they are.

We brought democracy to the Iraqi people. Not France. Not Germany. Not the plurality of the Democratic Party.

Look at the ink stained fingers of those who cast votes today. Now look at their faces. Does that look like the expression of an ‘occupied’ people? Look at the dancing in the street. The unfettered joy of those who actually had their first opportunity to decide their own fate.

We brought democracy to an oppressed and fearful nation. For that we should be allowed to say a collective ‘we told you so’ to the naysayers.

My pride does not spring from a sense of being right. It finds its roots in the ink-stained Iraqi fingers, who tasted freedom for the first time yesterday.

Listening to many of those Iraqis was truly inspiring…

It is about them, their country and their personal liberties…

I wish them only the best…and hope that this is also one step toward bringing all our people Home…

Mufasa

I just wanted to say that I was very happy to see what appears to be a well received vote!

Since this has already been politicized, I’d add that thinking it was a mistake to go in does not stop one from wanting the best to come out of the situation.

The US was not designed to start wars even for the purpose of spreading democracy or freedom. While this is indeed a very good possible (or probable) outcome of the war, and for many may morally justify the war, it isn’t suitable reason to start a war.

Whether good or bad, the US is not supposed to, according to its own rules, start wars to forceably spread it’s own doctrine of freedom around the world.

Democracy, in Iraq, is a happy byproduct of an intervention brought about due to a collusion of factors that led the President, and congress, to conclude that the US was in imminent danger.

Anyhow, I’m not critiquing the start of the war nor the fact that freedom appears to be in its infancy in Iraq, but instead…

  1. the thought that people who have a different interpretation of various events leading to war having to be classed as naysayers.

  2. the apparent ignorance that the US is not supposed to be able to start wars for the purpose of spreading freedom no matter how noble that task may be.

You can be happy about the events in Iraq, the effects things are having on the citizens of Iraq, the possible impact on the Middle East and so on, without believing the original decision was appropriate.

Before you flame me, do me a favor and reread what I said…

I also don’t think we should start wars just to spread democracy. But this was more then democracy.

I saw a person who was a threat. He had weapons of mass destruction, and used them in the past. He was unwilling to prove that he no longer had weapons, and hid the fact that his WMD program was still running, and bigger then ever. Prepared to start up at a moments notice.

We also cannot ignore the genocide. The lowest estimate is that he is responsible for the deaths of half a million people. And the highest estimate I have heard is as many as 2 million. Should this be ignored? They are still finding mass graves.

Then there is the little matter of attempting to assassinate a former president. Is this not an act of war in and of itself? How about the World Trade Center Bombing? He protected people involved in that act as well as the attack on a military ship. He already declared war against us. If he had the ability to blow up a nuke in America, do you think he would have done it?

As I have stated before, I don’t have a problem with people with a legitimate reason for not going to war, but I have yet to hear one. Most people are against the war only because it was Bush in control. If a Democrat did the exact same things, most of the people complaining would be cheering, proclaiming the Democrat president as doing wonderful things. (To be honest a few Republicans and conservatives would be complaining just because a Democrat was in office. That is just as bad.)

If Kerry had become president, you know that Ted Kennedy would be cheering, and saying that Kerry had turned things around.

All you have to do is listen to people talk about Bush “lying” about WMD?s. Instead of just saying he was wrong, they have to take it further and say he lied. Being wrong is not lying. If it was all the liberals who told me that Bush could not win in the last election are all liars.

Some bring up the people in the military, pointing out all the deaths that have occurred, but still do not even show any respect by completely ignoring the fact that Bush receives a much larger support from those in the military then the civilian population. Do their opinions not count? (Anyone notice that the single largest day of deaths of American military was not from the war, but from an accidental crash that could have occurred anywhere?)

No vroom, not all of this is directed at you. (Except everything you agree with that I disagreed with.) It really is directed at all the people who have lost it. That logic has left the building, and destroying Bush at any cost is worth it, no matter the cost.

The problem is that I see the truth. That all of these people are out there thinking, “If only Al Gore had become president. Then he would be so popular, and the Democrats would be in power again.”

What I thought was that if Bush lost the election because of the war, it was worth it. What needed to be done was truly done, and that is what matters, not who is in power.

I saw a man holding a crystal ball, telling us he possessed the truth.

He was wielding a form of power, and using it in his words.

I saw genocides in the third world, millions killed, and nothing done because those countries did not possess oil.

I saw oppressions in a country that possessed the most oil, and nothing was done.

I saw war economies do what they were built to do: war.

I saw our money invested, elsewhere.

I saw agencies invest in conflict.

I saw charlatans with words.

I saw many top democrats vote for the war on the same information that was handed to President Bush.

I saw a dangerous dictator.

I saw a dangerous dictator who at one point had weapons of mass destruction.

I saw an oppressed people.

I saw an opportunity to free people who have never tasted freedom.

I saw an opportunity to actually have a stable democratic government in an area of the world where others could be influenced as well.

I saw a liberal media mislead viewers with slanted stories night after night.

I saw that same liberal media have to eat it’s words when over 60% of the Iraqi people turned out to vote!

[quote]vroom wrote:
The US was not designed to start wars even for the purpose of spreading democracy or freedom. While this is indeed a very good possible (or probable) outcome of the war, and for many may morally justify the war, it isn’t suitable reason to start a war.

Whether good or bad, the US is not supposed to, according to its own rules, start wars to forceably spread it’s own doctrine of freedom around the world.
[/quote]

You’re under the false assumption that we started this war to spread our ‘doctrine’.

There is no reason in rehashing the reasons for war.

President Bush, a vast majority of congress, many world leaders, and an overwhelming majority of the american people believed it was the right thing to do.

As a side benefit of this war, as well as the Afghanistan War, freedom is breaking out in two countries that have never known the meaning of the word.

Ask those arthritic old women with their toothless grins if the joy they are expressing is imposed on them.

Ask any of the scores of street dancers if the feel the U.S. has imposed their doctrine on them.

How do you ‘impose the doctrine’ of freedom on someone anyhow?

I think democracy is the perfect defense against terror.

I wonder who will be next?

I saw Palestine, or Iraq?

The power of money and its results.

I saw pretention as a sole requisite for membership, or a will to forget.