T Nation

IRAQ FREEDOM

All you liberals are eating shit now!!!..the Iraq people love their freedom…and I love seeing our flag being flown over their. Liberals were against their freedom over there!!!..and lets not ever forget that!!!
Liberals hated seeing them free today!!..NEVER forget they were against the war for their freedom!!!

PtrDR

You’re an idiot. Thank you for the rhetoric lesson.

I think what best sums it up is the picture of two Iraqis holding up a sign previously owned by ‘human shields.’ The words GO HOME YOU U.S. WANKERS! have been added to the sign. Those professing to ‘protect’ the Iraqis by attempting to stop bombings aren’t even welcome there anymore.

I am glad the long-suffering Iraqis are getting their first taste of freedom, and I am proud to be an American.

are these the same people who were cursing the United States when we were handing out food, water, and other supplies to them? Not everyone is happy to see us chief. Our media is simply showing you what they want you to see genius. Of course they are not going to show the people who don’t want us there. Do you honestly believe that anyone’s media is objective.

first of all, learn how to spell. second, I guess you think that the civil war was actually fought to free the slaves too right. Like Abraham Lincoln was some great philanthropist, right? Hey, were these the same people who were cursing the United States when we weer giving them food, water and other supplies. Of course they’re not going to show you the people who don’t want us there genius

What’s a liberal?

Guess what? They’re probably already gathering in a coffee shop thinking about their NEXT CRUSADE. Do they really give a shit about the people? I guess not. I’ve grown tired of seeing all these ‘all talk, all show, no go, no actions, non consequent’ activist mentalities. They bark all day long, are always AGAINST something, but never DO anything to change the issue at hand for the better. And when the flavor-of-the-month has not mass (media) appeal, the activists change stripes. Wow! I guess media-face-time is the real issue at hand here. Not reality.

These crowd agitators should be subject to a ‘put up or shut up’ credibility analysis (evaluated of past ACTIONS and RESULTS of this ‘group’) before having a right to go out and do some propaganda on likewise gullible masses. This brings up the ‘yeah, but who shall be the ones to judge this’ and the ‘what makes you think you are holier than thou’ knee-jerk reflexes.

To this I answer: To any potential protestor, if you are not in a position of power to REALLY change the situation (i.e. have a REAL impact on the outcome), or if you have no credibility of what you are talking about (don’t talk about how you would do war if you’ve never done service), then don’t waste anyone’s time, save your reputation, shut up, resume your daily life, and find a REAL way to change the situation or do a REAL concrete action to HELP the situation. You have no legitimate right to speak until then. Example: Cry all you want about the ‘poooooor’ Iraki people and/or against Saddam. No. Join the Unicef or any organisation that will have results, help on the terrain. Yes. You get the idea.

A parallel example: you only get to vote once every 4 years. The only time you have REAL power is when you cast your vote in the ballot. The rest of time, what you say changes nothing in the elected peoples way-of-process, except, if you are lucky, when you answer to one of their polls.

I could go on and on. BOTTOM LINE: Yes to liberty, but only if backed by responsibility (and I would add impartial, logic, rational reasoning based on facts and reality, not ‘wishes’, ‘hopes’ or ‘emotions’). Earn your right to talk and protest. Not the other way around.

Note: Obviously, we’re going to rip each other’s hearts out in this thread, but let’s try and forget how much we hate each other’s viewpoints when we jump back over to the other forums, agreed?

That being said, let the bloodletting begin…

Those of you with liberal tendencies truly amaze me. Yeah, “our media shows us only what we want to see” Are you kidding me?! This is the same media that bitched about the war strategy from the very beginning! The same liberal-leaning media that is anti-war and still can’t admit that getting rid of the murderous dictator was a great thing.

Does that make sense? The media, with the exception of Fox News, can’t stand to show the parades of people celebrating, people throwing there shoes at the statue of saddam. They’re bitter and hateful that the despised President Bush waged a successful campaign to oust an asshole.

Our military from top to bottom was outstanding in their performance. We kicked their asses, got rids of the oppressors, and gave the Iraqi people their freedom. Where the hell is your patriotism?!

People are tasting freedom for the first time ever!

Granted, there are obviously Iraqis (and liberals) who didn’t want change. But does anyone really think that living in total fear of a murderous tyrant is a preferable way of life?

And another thing…why are you all excited about seeing the american flag being flown in Iraq? The US didn’t conquer Iraq, it (supposedly) removed a dictator. So what gives the US army any right whatsoever to raise the US flag on Iraqi soil?

Im not talking about the Army troop who wrongly raised the flag. I am talking about the Iraq people who were waving our flag.
Also, the Iraq people were being dumbed down by their media which was TOTALLY lying to them. An example? We are within fifteen miles of Bagdad and this minister of info. says we are not within 100 miles!! With that type of info being given to the people of Iraq…no wonder they had the inaccurate view of us.
Liberal…stay home!

Yeah, Mulley, that was a mistake, but one soon realized as it was pulled down a few minutes later. I think the excitement of the moment after days of fighting got the best of a few.

Gotta admit, though, if saddam is alive, I hope he saw that…

mamann gets it. so does ptrdm… sorry i cant remember your handle. Why would the media(except for FOX) who has blasted the government for not having enough evidence, for not finishing the war fast enough, blah, blah, blah not tell us if people werent happy that we were there. They would be jumping at the chance.

Mamman
Our military from top to bottom was outstanding in their performance. We kicked their asses, got rids of the oppressors, and gave the Iraqi people their freedom.

You’re joking? - a top performance?

The US Army did a better job of killing their own troops than the Iraqi’s did.

And honesty, did you REALLY expect the Iraqi’s to put up any significant opposition?

Put the US up against a decent army - proper equipment, a working airforce etc - and then you can make such a statement.

Let me get in while this thread is still fresh. NONE OF US REALLY KNOWS WHAT IS IN THE HEARTS OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE. Really, we don’t. I really want to believe we liberated that people and they love it, but I simply do not know if that is the case. Someone asked why, if people aren’t happy, isn’t the media showing pictures of that. I’ve seen PLENTY of that. I just saw a clip of a woman carrying a sign saying “GO HOME” yelling at a soldier in a tank to get out of iraq. Tha soldier turned and yelled back, “Fuck you.” I was disgusted. I’ve also seen plenty of Iraqis on camera saying they do not want us here, and if you actually look, in every one of those clips where they show you someone kicking a picture of Saddam, you can see three or four people in the background that are obviously pissed off. I mean of course there are people that are over-joyed that Saddam is gone, but of course there are also people that are really pissed off we did this, and NONE OF US REALLY KNOW WHICH IS THE MAJORITY OPINION. Really this thread can stop here, but I’m sure that irrational people will continue using images from American media as proof. Have any of you guys watched any foreign sources? COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE, and they aren’t “wrong” either, they just see things in a different way. Only time will tell how the Iraqi people truly feel about this situation, and we can’t do anything about it, so why not save the bloodshed? Here I’ll change the topic…I made my first gear purchase recently, through RSOC, they’re awesome huh guys?

To Iscariot: Lets compare it on a one-death-to-one-death basis. Did you consider the fact that the total deaths for this war-period are half of all the people who died in the 9/11 attacks? Considering all the gunfire, people and weaponry that was there, I find it to be a very efficient war. Your mileage may differ.

PtrDr…Mamann…DanC…Goldie, Diesel, et al (meaning the rest of you Patriotic, Red-Blooded Americans)…

There is NO evidence to convince the doves that what was done was right. There is NOTHING anyone will EVER say that will. There is NOTHING that they will EVER see that will.

For any of these to happen they would have to admit that the opinion they held was WRONG. Do any of these folks seem like the type to say “Gee, it sounded like a reasonable opinion at the time but the overwhelming evidence and information that is now coming to light is causing me to re-evaluate my opinion”…uh, no. Being wrong about this would mean that they are wrong about many things and I don’t believe that these anti-war, hyperbole flinging nimrods have the character to face what that would mean. Growing up from idealistic and naive ideals and seeing the big picture takes years in “real” life and facing the enormity of their wrongness would force them to do so too quickly and they would cease to exist…Poof (much like Marty letting himself see himself in “Back to the Future”) .

These Liberals were against this action because of “Ideals” not because of facts. The only time any of these guys used or cared about facts was when they suited their argument, when they didn’t…it was “propaganda” foisted upon them by their own government. Better to believe the French, Germans and Iraqi’s then their own government. Traitorous? you bet.

And the whole…Yeah, I’m the REAL patriot, because I protest the war and protest got women the vote, affirmative action etc…well dumbass, war got you FREEDOM and without freedom you wouldn’t have burnt bras, racially mixed schools or the opportunity to bite the hand that feeds you.

At the very least we got to see who could be thoughtful in their arguments and take measure of the intellect (yes, you can be smart AND wrong…) of those who disagreed with us but I hope that the clean up is quick and the O/T can get back to the truly frivolous antics of the usual suspects and band of idiots that provides us with less inflammatory respite.

Jesus, I HATE being serious here but sometimes I just gotta…

“Thus so wretched is man that he would weary even without any cause for weariness… and so frivolous is he that, though full of a thousand reasons for weariness, the least thing, such as playing billiards or hitting a ball, is sufficient enough to amuse him”

~ Blaise Pascal

P.S Liberals, do not post to this, unless you have something funny, entertaining or even some very clever insults would be fine but DO NOT bother me with serious debate. I am O.K with living the rest of my life knowing that you are yet to see the light and you should feel the same way about me.

This topic reminded me of (what I thought was) a fun anecdote from WWII. During the seesaw campaign on the italian peninsula, there were a number of towns which changed hands 5-6 times. When the americans or germans rolled in, they would celebrate each successive “liberation” with a parade, wine and flowers. Both german and american officers were aware of the situation, but they just enjoyed it all the same. They later commented about the humour inherent in the situation, speculating that the italians probably drained their cellars entirely over the course of the few weeks.

I assume I’m the only person who finds this story amusing… anyway…

I liked the honesty in the insecurity answer. I’ll second that and add that it feels good to strive for something and improve oneself at it on a daily, monthly, or yearly basis. I may go though ups and downs in my program, but nothing feels better than that satisfaction with oneself that is felt after setting a personal best. More than that though, it’s just fighting the good fight. A person should strive above all else to be the best they can be in all areas of life. I used to tell other people when I set PRs in the gym, but I soon figured out that I was the only person who actually cared. Now when I hit a new number, I just enjoy it in a more pure way, for myself. Weightlifting and sports in general (and life for that matter) are about mastering one’s self. Those are my hammy ruminations.

only fools believe the liberal biased media… and the conservative corporations that own and edit them.

Damn, Cupcake, when you’re serious you really make a lot of…well…sense!

Very logical, eloquent, and straight to the point. Thank you, and now I will do my best to sign off…