T Nation

Iran Expanding It's Proxy War?

Iran is possibly taking it’s proxy war against the US and it’s allies, to Afghanistan. Gee, didn’t see that coming…

Iranian arms to Taliban bother NATO

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: As NATO troops in Afghanistan have begun intercepting sophisticated Iranian arms bound for the Taliban, US, NATO and Afghan officials are growing more concerned about Iranian policy in Afghanistan, says a Knight Ridder report.

It?s long been conventional wisdom that Iran would do nothing to destabilise Afghan President Hamid Karzai?s shaky government or aid the Taliban, against whom Iran nearly went to war with in 1998. The Taliban obtains the lion?s share of its weapons and other aid from the proceeds of opium trafficking and from supporters in Pakistan and Arab nations, the report says.

The recent seizures of Iranian arms by British troops in Afghanistan?s war-torn southern Helmand province are challenging that assumption, however.

?Iran appears to be playing a very small role, but it appears to be increasing,? said Seth Jones, an expert at the RAND Corp, a research centre that?s close to the Pentagon.

The intercepted weapons include the first so-called explosively formed penetrator bombs, devices that spit molten copper plugs that can penetrate the armour of American tanks, troop carriers and Humvees, said US officials who requested anonymity because the matter is classified…"

Full article: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/?page=2007\05\31\story_31-5-2007_pg7_5

I’m certainly not going to try to stick up for Iran, but we do have to be careful to figure out whether or not this is state supported activity.

I am sure that Al Queda will be in Iran and be spending money in Iran, simply because they aren’t being bombed if they are there.

This would also be true in Syria. It certainly wouldn’t be a stretch of the imagination to think that non-state sponsored actions would be lumped into state sponsored actions… as it would have a huge impact on public opinion.

Once again, I certainly have no information either way and I am not trying to defend Iran either. Securing the borders would be a good idea… if a difficult one to implement.

How can this not be obvious to everyone?

OF COURSE, Iran and Syria are trying to take every advantage of the situation they can.

Every nation who has a bone to pick with the US will try and benefit as best it can from your situation in Iraq.

Syria and Iran simply have it easier because they’re right next door, and you’ve been unable to secure the borders properly. They’d be complete morons to pass up such an opportunity.

Well, suspicion was good enough for the invasion of Iraq…

I think it’s risen above suspicion. Iran is at war with the US. It is not only fighting us in Iraq, but clearly in Afghanistan too.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/06/document_iran_c.html
Document: Iran Caught Red-Handed Shipping Arms to Taliban

June 06, 2007 6:00 PM

Brian Ross and Christopher Isham Report:

Document_iran_c_mn NATO officials say they have caught Iran red-handed, shipping heavy arms, C4 explosives and advanced roadside bombs to the Taliban for use against NATO forces, in what the officials say is a dramatic escalation of Iran’s proxy war against the United States and Great Britain.

“It is inconceivable that it is anyone other than the Iranian government that’s doing it,” said former White House counterterrorism official Richard Clarke, an ABC News consultant.

Secretary of Defense Robert Gates stopped short earlier this week of blaming Iran, saying the U.S. did not have evidence “of the involvement of the Iranian government in support of the Taliban.”

But an analysis by a senior coalition official, obtained by the Blotter on ABCNews.com, concludes there is clear evidence of Iran’s involvement.

“This is part of a considered policy,” says the analysis, “rather than the result of low-level corruption and weapons smuggling.”

Iran and the Taliban had been fierce enemies when the Taliban was in power in Afghanistan, and their apparent collaboration came as a surprise to some in the intelligence community.

“I think their goal is to make it very clear that Iran has the capability to make life worse for the United States on a variety of fronts,” said Seth Jones of the Rand Institute, “even if they have to do some business with a group that has historically been their enemy.”

The coalition analysis says munitions recovered in two Iranian convoys, on April 11 and May 3, had “clear indications that they originated in Iran. Some were identical to Iranian supplied goods previously discovered in Iraq.”

The April convoy was tracked from Iran into Helmand province and led a fierce firefight that destroyed one vehicle, according to the official analysis. A second vehicle was reportedly found to contain small arms ammunition, mortar rounds and more than 650 pounds of C4 demolition charges.

A second convoy of two vehicles was spotted on May 3 and led to the capture of five occupants and the seizure of RPG-7mm rockets and more than 1,000 pounds of C4, the analysis says.

Also among the munitions are components for the lethal EFPs, or explosive formed projectiles, the roadside bombs that U.S. officials say Iran has provided to Iraqi insurgents with deadly results.

“These clearly have the hallmarks of the Iranian Revolution Guards’ Quds force,” said Jones.

The coalition diplomatic message says the demolition charges “contained the same fake U.S. markings found on explosives recovered from insurgents operating in the Baghdad area.”

“We believe these intercepted munitions are part of a much bigger flow of support from Iran to the Taliban,” the message says.

The Taliban receives larger supplies of weapons through profits from opium dealing, officials say, but the Iranian presence could be significant.

“It means the insurgency in Afghanistan is likely to be prolonged,” said Jones. “It would be a much more potent force.”

I wish Iran wasn’t doing it, but I can’t help but think back to all the conflicts in which the US supplied arms to the side it liked.

Again, I’m not saying they should be doing it, but it might be illustrative to realize that other people felt the same way about those actions as we feel about these actions.

Given the state of tensions in the region I don’t think it is a wise choice on behalf of Iran though.

Stepping back to look at the wider chessboard, I can’t help but wonder who else might want to keep the US spending large amounts of money for longer periods of time…

[quote]vroom wrote:
I wish Iran wasn’t doing it, but I can’t help but think back to all the conflicts in which the US supplied arms to the side it liked.

Again, I’m not saying they should be doing it, but it might be illustrative to realize that other people felt the same way about those actions as we feel about these actions.

Given the state of tensions in the region I don’t think it is a wise choice on behalf of Iran though.

Stepping back to look at the wider chessboard, I can’t help but wonder who else might want to keep the US spending large amounts of money for longer periods of time…[/quote]

But, it’s not just US troops dying. Iraqi security forces and civilians are being targeted with these weapons.

And now, Afghanis.

Iran has supported terrorists long before this, of course. Nothing new for them, but now it’s a series of acts of war against the Iraq Coalition and NATO.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I think it’s risen above suspicion. Iran is at war with the US. It is not only fighting us in Iraq, but clearly in Afghanistan too. [/quote]

Let’s see…the US is including them in the “axis of evil”, everyone is saying that “all options are on the table”, and US troops are basically surrounding them by occupying Iraq and Afghanistan. To add insult to injury, fresh navy ships pop up every once in a while in the gulf for so-called “trainings”.

Had Iran invaded Canada and Mexico, and stationed ships on your coasts, would you be saying that the US is at war with Iran or that Iran is at war with the US? I think the distinction matters.

Awaiting an honest answer…

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I think it’s risen above suspicion. Iran is at war with the US. It is not only fighting us in Iraq, but clearly in Afghanistan too.

Let’s see…the US is including them in the “axis of evil”, everyone is saying that “all options are on the table”, and US troops are basically surrounding them by occupying Iraq and Afghanistan. To add insult to injury, fresh navy ships pop up every once in a while in the gulf for so-called “trainings”.

Had Iran invaded Canada and Mexico, and stationed ships on your coasts, would you be saying that the US is at war with Iran or that Iran is at war with the US? I think the distinction matters.

Awaiting an honest answer…[/quote]

Exhibit A: lixy will excuse any predominately Muslim country for any act.

This includes terrorism.

JeffR

[quote]JeffR wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I think it’s risen above suspicion. Iran is at war with the US. It is not only fighting us in Iraq, but clearly in Afghanistan too.

Let’s see…the US is including them in the “axis of evil”, everyone is saying that “all options are on the table”, and US troops are basically surrounding them by occupying Iraq and Afghanistan. To add insult to injury, fresh navy ships pop up every once in a while in the gulf for so-called “trainings”.

Had Iran invaded Canada and Mexico, and stationed ships on your coasts, would you be saying that the US is at war with Iran or that Iran is at war with the US? I think the distinction matters.

Awaiting an honest answer…

Exhibit A: lixy will excuse any predominately Muslim country for any act.

This includes terrorism.

JeffR

[/quote]

That’s because terrorism has two components. People who commit the acts and those who sympathize with them.

Guys, once again, Lixy has said nothing about Iran in terms of excusing the action.

What he has said is that you need to understand Iran’s viewpoint of the situation in order to understand Iran’s actions.

Personally, I am surprised that nobody has any comments on how other countries felt when the US supplied arms for people they are fighting.

According to the logic above, the US and Russia where at war due to previous actions in Afghanistan.

There are certainly “excuses” to go to war if we wish to. We already have the nuclear efforts of Iran. We have support for terrorist activities. We have wild crazy statements from their leadership.

Maybe step back from the “rah rah” bullshit and try to figure out the mindsets of the parties involved. It might outline some steps that are available other than launching another incredibly costly war.

Military conflict is something that can often be avoided, appropriately, if the parties involved can demonstrate an understanding of each other’s concerns.

And yes, I know, if it is purely a fundamentalist regime that forces a war, then there certainly may be no way to get around having one.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Guys, once again, Lixy has said nothing about Iran in terms of excusing the action.

What he has said is that you need to understand Iran’s viewpoint of the situation in order to understand Iran’s actions.

Personally, I am surprised that nobody has any comments on how other countries felt when the US supplied arms for people they are fighting.

According to the logic above, the US and Russia where at war due to previous actions in Afghanistan.

There are certainly “excuses” to go to war if we wish to. We already have the nuclear efforts of Iran. We have support for terrorist activities. We have wild crazy statements from their leadership.

Maybe step back from the “rah rah” bullshit and try to figure out the mindsets of the parties involved. It might outline some steps that are available other than launching another incredibly costly war.

Military conflict is something that can often be avoided, appropriately, if the parties involved can demonstrate an understanding of each other’s concerns.

And yes, I know, if it is purely a fundamentalist regime that forces a war, then there certainly may be no way to get around having one.[/quote]

The mind set involved is irrelevant. I don’t really give a flying fuck how Iran feels. They are arming our enemy’s and strengthening their positions. Technically this is an act of war. One we can hardly afford to engage in at this point, which is why Iran is doing what it’s doing.

They have expressed themselves as an enemy of the United States and acted accordingly. I couldn’t shit a care about their feelings. We are not a teddy bear or a shoulder to cry on. Iranians caught supplying our enemies should be dealt with harshly.

[quote]pat36 wrote:
The mind set involved is irrelevant. I don’t really give a flying fuck how Iran feels. They are arming our enemy’s and strengthening their positions. Technically this is an act of war. One we can hardly afford to engage in at this point, which is why Iran is doing what it’s doing.

They have expressed themselves as an enemy of the United States and acted accordingly. I couldn’t shit a care about their feelings. We are not a teddy bear or a shoulder to cry on. Iranians caught supplying our enemies should be dealt with harshly.
[/quote]

LOL.

Look, whether you like it or not, understanding your enemy is one key to defeating your enemy.

I’m not suggest you “care” about how people feel in the way you are trying to characterize it.

[quote]pat36 wrote:
The mind set involved is irrelevant. [/quote]

Context is everything. Yet, you dismiss it as irrelevant?

Telling.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I think it’s risen above suspicion. Iran is at war with the US. It is not only fighting us in Iraq, but clearly in Afghanistan too.

Let’s see…the US is including them in the “axis of evil”, everyone is saying that “all options are on the table”, and US troops are basically surrounding them by occupying Iraq and Afghanistan. To add insult to injury, fresh navy ships pop up every once in a while in the gulf for so-called “trainings”.

Had Iran invaded Canada and Mexico, and stationed ships on your coasts, would you be saying that the US is at war with Iran or that Iran is at war with the US? I think the distinction matters.

Awaiting an honest answer…[/quote]

Iran has been calling America the Great Satan for much longer.

Iran invaded our embassy and took people hostage 28 years ago.

You want to blame their support for terrorism on the term “axis of evil” and other current sayings?

[quote]vroom wrote:

What he has said is that you need to understand Iran’s viewpoint of the situation in order to understand Iran’s actions.
…[/quote]

We completely understand. Iran viws us as an enemy and wants to dominate that part of the world.

We would be fools to let them have their way.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
We completely understand. Iran views us as an enemy and wants to dominate that part of the world.

We would be fools to let them have their way.[/quote]

Seriously, understanding how and why Iran (and other problematic countries or groups in the region) is able to gather the support of it’s populace, to whatever level it does, may be a key to the long term ability to defuse the Middle East.

Whether or not such an event were to happen before or after several more rounds of warfare, of course, remains to be seen.

[quote]vroom wrote:
pat36 wrote:
The mind set involved is irrelevant. I don’t really give a flying fuck how Iran feels. They are arming our enemy’s and strengthening their positions. Technically this is an act of war. One we can hardly afford to engage in at this point, which is why Iran is doing what it’s doing.

They have expressed themselves as an enemy of the United States and acted accordingly. I couldn’t shit a care about their feelings. We are not a teddy bear or a shoulder to cry on. Iranians caught supplying our enemies should be dealt with harshly.

LOL.

Look, whether you like it or not, understanding your enemy is one key to defeating your enemy.

I’m not suggest you “care” about how people feel in the way you are trying to characterize it.[/quote]

Understanding there mindset to use against them, sounds like a plan. I must have misunderstood what you said.

[quote]lixy wrote:

Awaiting an honest answer…[/quote]

See my reply in:

‘Forget About Winning In Iraq’

No sense rehashing what I’ve already rehashed.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

Iran has been calling America the Great Satan for much longer.

Iran invaded our embassy and took people hostage 28 years ago.

You want to blame their support for terrorism on the term “axis of evil” and other current sayings?[/quote]

EXACTLY. But let’s excuse Iran for the devistation they caused Lebanon, the Hostage Crisis and the situation with the Brits. Bush called them Axis of Evil, so every act of war they did, are doing and will do is excused. Bush may have threatened to use action, but the Iranians CLEARLY ARE using action against us and Nato.

Oh yeah, we supported the Shaw 30 years ago, I almost forgot.