Iran at War With US

[quote]lixy wrote:
Jason Voorhees wrote:
Iran is NOT more peaceful than the U.S… Are you claiming the citizens and government of their country are generally more civilized than Americans?

The U.S. has invaded more countries than Iran because they have been asked for assistance in a lot of situations. Iran doesn’t have the military power to help out much and I’m not sure how many would expect them to lend a hand.

Again, my observation is simple. A lot more innocents have died because of the US than because of Iran. Infer from it what you will.

Did anyone ask you to invade Iraq? Did you see any Vietnamese referendum asking for your intervention in the 60’s? Did the Cubans ask you to starve them? Did the Palestanians beg you to arm Israel so they can be oppressed? How about the Contras? El-Salvador? Guatemala? The Somalians you bombed in January?

Yes, the US did some good things. I can’t argue against that. But it doesn’t make up for the other bit.

I maintain that historically, Iran has proven to be a lot less belligerent than the US. Their secret services don’t topple elected officials. Their army isn’t present in 120 countries across the globe. Their arsenal is very small compared to yours. It has nothing to do with civilization; it’s a foreign policy issue.

Numerous polls have been taken, and the US always tops the ranks as the biggest threat to world’s peace. That’s gotta say something!

US seen as a bigger threat to peace than Iran, worldwide poll suggests.

US seen as a bigger threat to peace than Iran, worldwide poll suggests | World news | The Guardian [/quote]

So people fear the most powerful country in the world. What a surprise. I don’t think their fear is justifiable considering the overwhelming good we’ve done. Look, every country has their pros and cons. No one is saying the U.S. is perfect but they certainly look a lot better than the wackos that are running Iran. Are you claiming that if Iran was indeed a superpower that they wouldn’t be causing serious harm to the rest of the world?

[quote]reckless wrote:
What did you guys expect? You invaded Iraq, let’s not discuss the reasons here, but than you complain that Iran is interfering.

Again, what did you guys expect?

Wouldn’t you interfere if, and I’m playing your paranoia here, if Cuba invaded Mexico?[/quote]

Not a good analogy. We’d declare war on cuba and fight them openly.

Even the muffin man must feel a twinge uncertain when he is apologizing for the iranians.

They’d love to subjugate your pasty white ass.

Better hope we stay strong.

JeffR

Iran has influence in Afghanistan, where it helped the Northern Alliance battle the Taliban before they were a threat to us, they backed Hezbollah in Lebanon during all of the 80s and were responcible for the many terrorist attacks, kidnappings and assassinations there, they have have infiltrated South American and committed terrorist attacks against countries there, and now are involved in Iraq.

Yeah, real peaceful. Right.

As far as Islamists goes, Iran got the fundamentalist ball rolling with the Revolution in the 70’s. It’s been all down hill since then.

[quote]Jason Voorhees wrote:
So people fear the most powerful country in the world. What a surprise. [/quote]

Cool. I see that you got your heads properly screwed on your shoulders.

That’s a breeze of fresh air around here.

Arguable.

I believe the “fear” stems from the legitimate concerns. People are closely following your foreign policy and drawing their own conclusions.

Was turning Iraq into a mess unavoidable? I don’t think so.

Right. But while the latter does not harm other countries, the US directly does.

I never claimed that. Iran is not a superpower and I see no point speculating about an impossible scenario.

I don’t think a superpower behaves badly simply because it can. I think it all comes down to putting the human cost above economical interests.

The Iranian regime is horrible. That much we can agree on.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Jason Voorhees wrote:
Did anyone ask you to invade Iraq?
[/quote]
Gkhan says:
Yes, people like Chalibi, vicitms who wanted Saddam dethroned.

Gkhan says:
Read your history, The Vietnamese were part of a Pacific Alliance and they were being invaded by the Communist North. We were there to stop this invasion. We may have bombed the north, (who was heavily armed with Rockets and MiGs, so they were not helpless victims in the least,) but we never invaded it. The north also had a formadable conventional army which kicked the Chinese’s ass when they invaded the north circa 1978 (? I am writing this from memory so sorry if my facts aren’t as accurate as the Wiki)

Gkhan says:
The Cubans had the Soviets as an ally. Why didn’t they feed them? The Cubans have never asked to be our allies.

Gkhan says:
No, but they were armed by the Soviets so they can carry out suicide bombings in busses full of civilians.

Gkhan wrote:
The issue here was containment of the Soviet Union. Maybe you’d have liked it if they’d won the cold war. Maybe they would have sent more Muslims to die in Siberian death camps.

Gkhan says:
Again, we were helping our ally the Ethopians in rooting out al-qaeda elements in Somalia. After they declared war on us on 9-11, I think we have a right to attack al-qaeda anywhere.

Gkhan says:
What about the car bombing which killed the Lebanese President. What about Hezbollah, who threatened to take his government down? Aren’t these agents of Iran.

Gkhan says:
Most of those countries have asked us to be there.

Gkhan says:
Their arsenal will get more formadable of they aquire nuclear weapons.

As far as polls go, you can determine the outcome of any poll by knowing the attitudes of the people you question a head of time.

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Iran has influence in Afghanistan, where it helped the Northern Alliance battle the Taliban before they were a threat to us [/quote]

And that’s a bad thing how?

You mean that they backed the group that drove Israel out of Lebanon? It goes as “good point” in my book.

Just so you know, Israel was OCCUPYING Lebanon in defiance to international law.

Any proof to back that up?

Their sworn enemy invaded their neighbor. What did you expect? Your president put them on the “axis of evil” way before the invasion. You expected them to sit quietly and watch you take control of the region?

I’m not gonna list all the terrorist activities of the US or the numerous wars of agression it engaged into. Suffice it so say that it’s a LOT longer than the list you have.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Iran has influence in Afghanistan, where it helped the Northern Alliance battle the Taliban before they were a threat to us

And that’s a bad thing how?

they backed Hezbollah in Lebanon during all of the 80s

You mean that they backed the group that drove Israel out of Lebanon? It goes as “good point” in my book.

Just so you know, Israel was OCCUPYING Lebanon in defiance to international law.

they have have infiltrated South American and committed terrorist attacks against countries there

Any proof to back that up?

and now are involved in Iraq.

Their sworn enemy invaded their neighbor. What did you expect? Your president put them on the “axis of evil” way before the invasion. You expected them to sit quietly and watch you take control of the region?

I’m not gonna list all the terrorist activities of the US or the numerous wars of agression it engaged into. Suffice it so say that it’s a LOT longer than the list you have.[/quote]

Dooooowwwn Plaaaay! So, Iran get’s to intervene in Lebanon? No matter the reason, you admit Iran intervenes inside of other countries. Come on, let’s feel that righteous indignation!

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
So you favor the Iranians then…interesting…

Did you move here from the Middle East?

I never said who I favored. Shouldn’t teachers be able to read?

[/quote]

We CAN read between the lines, Pookie. You’re implying that we and Iraq are incapable. You’re insulting the people of the ME saying they need a dictator with a leash, since 4 years of our plan is not going so well.

You, who know how to write so ‘well’ should not employ hidden inuendo then try your classic weasel act. Unless you can say it all in Farsi…

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
What did you guys expect? You invaded Iraq, let’s not discuss the reasons here, but than you complain that Iran is interfering.

Again, what did you guys expect?

Wouldn’t you interfere if, and I’m playing your paranoia here, if Cuba invaded Mexico?[/quote]

We liberated Iraq. The people subsequently voted for a free and democratic Iraq. The insurgents are trying to overthrow a democratically elected government, while the enlightened folks in, say, Belgium, try everything in their power to ruin a DEMOCRATICALLY elected government.

When will the Belgian troops show? Democracy in Iraq is something you folks don’t care about? Oh I see, if America does something, its evil.

Shitwads.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Either Iran will run the region or a democratic Iraq will, backed by the USA. Who should the people in the MIddle East choose?[/quote]

God, the stupid hurts.
There will be a shia theocracy in Iraq that is allied with Iran if we account for a democratic Iraq.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
We CAN read between the lines, Pookie.[/quote]

That might be the problem. I suggest you stick to the lines themselves.

No. No. And yes.

I think Iraq is going as well as possible, given the planning that went into it and the knowledge of the culture and region the planners had.

I think people in the Middle East would enjoy freedom and liberty just as much as we do, but that they need to fight for it and establish it for themselves. We could help if asked, but going in and telling them how it’s going to be is never going to work.

At least, not until we go back to wars of conquest.

Don’t be mad at me because my words drew out your real thoughts about Iraq.

Like I said, your conclusions are yours, not mine.

It’s not my fault if you tripped up and went off script.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
What did you guys expect? You invaded Iraq, let’s not discuss the reasons here, but than you complain that Iran is interfering.

Again, what did you guys expect?

Wouldn’t you interfere if, and I’m playing your paranoia here, if Cuba invaded Mexico?

We liberated Iraq. The people subsequently voted for a free and democratic Iraq. The insurgents are trying to overthrow a democratically elected government, while the enlightened folks in, say, Belgium, try everything in their power to ruin a DEMOCRATICALLY elected government.

When will the Belgian troops show? Democracy in Iraq is something you folks don’t care about? Oh I see, if America does something, its evil.

Shitwads.

[/quote]
Too dumb to breathe, really. Uhmmm…sunni insurgents, uh have to be insurgents due to the shia majority (democratic elections and what not). You really need to read more…

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The people subsequently voted for a free and democratic Iraq. The insurgents are trying to overthrow a democratically elected government.[/quote]

And that democratically elected government ratified a nice sharia-inspired Islamic constitution.

[i]Article (2):

[b]1st - Islam is the official religion of the state and is a basic source of legislation:

(a) No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules of Islam.[/b]

(b) No law can be passed that contradicts the principles of democracy.

(c) No law can be passed that contradicts the rights and basic freedoms outlined in this constitution.[/i]

You can’t force freedom on people who don’t want it for themselves.

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
The people subsequently voted for a free and democratic Iraq. The insurgents are trying to overthrow a democratically elected government.

And that democratically elected government ratified a nice sharia-inspired Islamic constitution.

[i]Article (2):

[b]1st - Islam is the official religion of the state and is a basic source of legislation:

(a) No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules of Islam.[/b]

(b) No law can be passed that contradicts the principles of democracy.

You can’t force freedom on people who don’t want it for themselves.
[/quote]

wow…I can’t believe I’m going to fight to help these people. I seriously don’t think that their whole culture is ready for democracy yet…they need to climb out of their dark ages first…

Lixy said:

“I maintain that historically, Iran has proven to be a lot less belligerent than the US.”

I have shown that they influenced the rebels in Afghanistan who were trying to topple the pre-9-11 Taliban.

How is this any different than Ethopia trying to topple the government in Somalia, also islamic warlords and America helping with a bombing raid?

Is it ok for Iran to topple governments next door but not ok for US allies to do so?

Proof of Iran influence in South America:

“The prosecutors believe Barakat, who is on the run after an international warrant was issued against him last month, is a major player in the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires and in the 1994 bombing of the Jewish Community Center in the Argentine capital.”

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/americas/11/07/inv.terror.south/

So what if Hezbollah with Iran’s help drove out the Israelis, does that make killing, kidnapping, UN peacekeepers and US, French, Russian and other nation’s troops ok with you?

Yeah, read the above link. These guys are right in line behind Mother Theresa and Ghandi as world peace leaders.

Right!!!

Let’s not forget about these peaceful gems:

There were thirteen car bombings in Lebanon between the years 1981 and 1985, all the result of Iranian Hezbollah terrorists:

So just because they oppose the US and Israel, these guys are a-ok?

We know where you are coming from.

Gkhan

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
The people subsequently voted for a free and democratic Iraq. The insurgents are trying to overthrow a democratically elected government.

And that democratically elected government ratified a nice sharia-inspired Islamic constitution.

[i]Article (2):

[b]1st - Islam is the official religion of the state and is a basic source of legislation:

(a) No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules of Islam.[/b]
[/quote]

I can’t say that I blame these people, being that they are Islamic after all.

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Lixy said:

“I maintain that historically, Iran has proven to be a lot less belligerent than the US.”

I have shown that they influenced the rebels in Afghanistan who were trying to topple the pre-9-11 Taliban.

How is this any different than Ethopia trying to topple the government in Somalia, also islamic warlords and America helping with a bombing raid?

Is it ok for Iran to topple governments next door but not ok for US allies to do so?

Proof of Iran influence in South America:

“The prosecutors believe Barakat, who is on the run after an international warrant was issued against him last month, is a major player in the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires and in the 1994 bombing of the Jewish Community Center in the Argentine capital.”

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/americas/11/07/inv.terror.south/

So what if Hezbollah with Iran’s help drove out the Israelis, does that make killing, kidnapping, UN peacekeepers and US, French, Russian and other nation’s troops ok with you?

Yeah, read the above link. These guys are right in line behind Mother Theresa and Ghandi as world peace leaders.

Right!!!

Let’s not forget about these peaceful gems:

There were thirteen car bombings in Lebanon between the years 1981 and 1985, all the result of Iranian Hezbollah terrorists:

So just because they oppose the US and Israel, these guys are a-ok?

We know where you are coming from.

Gkhan[/quote]

I believe that is the final nail in his coffin regarding this subject.

[quote]pookie wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
We CAN read between the lines, Pookie.

That might be the problem. I suggest you stick to the lines themselves.

[/quote]

I think your ‘lines’ have something to do with rolled up dollar bills.

[quote]100meters wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
What did you guys expect? You invaded Iraq, let’s not discuss the reasons here, but than you complain that Iran is interfering.

Again, what did you guys expect?

Wouldn’t you interfere if, and I’m playing your paranoia here, if Cuba invaded Mexico?

We liberated Iraq. The people subsequently voted for a free and democratic Iraq. The insurgents are trying to overthrow a democratically elected government, while the enlightened folks in, say, Belgium, try everything in their power to ruin a DEMOCRATICALLY elected government.

When will the Belgian troops show? Democracy in Iraq is something you folks don’t care about? Oh I see, if America does something, its evil.

Shitwads.

Too dumb to breathe, really. Uhmmm…sunni insurgents, uh have to be insurgents due to the shia majority (democratic elections and what not). You really need to read more…[/quote]

So, if Republicans win something, because you’re now in the minority, you get to set off bombs in markets?

I actually need to read less…of your posts.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
100meters wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
What did you guys expect? You invaded Iraq, let’s not discuss the reasons here, but than you complain that Iran is interfering.

Again, what did you guys expect?

Wouldn’t you interfere if, and I’m playing your paranoia here, if Cuba invaded Mexico?

We liberated Iraq. The people subsequently voted for a free and democratic Iraq. The insurgents are trying to overthrow a democratically elected government, while the enlightened folks in, say, Belgium, try everything in their power to ruin a DEMOCRATICALLY elected government.

When will the Belgian troops show? Democracy in Iraq is something you folks don’t care about? Oh I see, if America does something, its evil.

Shitwads.

Too dumb to breathe, really. Uhmmm…sunni insurgents, uh have to be insurgents due to the shia majority (democratic elections and what not). You really need to read more…

So, if Republicans win something, because you’re now in the minority, you get to set off bombs in markets?

I actually need to read less…of your posts.

[/quote]

Why would you conflate the two? What I said IS happening there. It IS NOT happening here. There aren’t any parallels between the two. (again read more–be scared less.)We need to get out, because this dynamic won’t change.

The shia will remain indifferent to the Kurds and continue shunning the sunni and the sunni will continue to resent it. Then there will be a Shia theocracy.

What difference does it matter if this happens sooner or later—other than stinging the pride of “wise men” in washington and the press who have been totally dead wrong about every aspect of this war since the begining?