T Nation

Ipamorelin + B12

This is something that Defy has started to recommend for patients, Have any of you guys had experience using it? Suppose to stimulate the Pituitary gland for Growth Hormone and help with recovery etc…

I take sermorelin, similar to ipamorelin. Peptide, secretagogue products that stimulate the pituitary to make hGH. Nothing new. Helps with sleep, joints, leans you out a little. You cannot overdose it, in that your pituitary will not make proportionately more hGH after a point, it can only produce what it is physiologically capable of making. And………….it is of very limited, if any, benefit if IGF-1 levels are already adequate which indicate hGH is also. Therefore, it should not be part of a standard protocol offered to all TRT patients.

These products are expensive, around $175-200 a month. Cheaper than hGH, $900-1000 month.

What are your symptoms? Age? Do you know your IGF-1 level? B-12 level? CBC numbers?

I have no symptoms and my last IGF-1 Came in at 210. I didn’t have my B-12 measured I was just curious if it was worth the money and seems it may not be. I feel pretty good on my current protocol but always looking for more !! Thank you for responding

Unless IGF-1 is below 175, it is thought that taking hGH secretagogues is of little, or no, benefit. Interesting, and difficult to explain, that B12 is recommended without determining whether or not you are deficient in B12. Draw your own conclusions.

I think that is accurate, however, it’s your money and it won’t hurt you. It’s possible to be allergic to the peptide, but you just discontinue before it gets too far along.

IPAM alone won’t do much. You need a CJC/IPAM or Sermorelin/IPAM combo.

Singular ghrh’s or ghrp’s are a waste of money.

1 Like

@yarmish I’m a Defy patient (just over 6 years) 67 years old. Ipamorelin is always best for you if are older. Some studies have shown guys in their lat 50’s early 60’s sermorelin does not increase your IGF-1 so it does not stimulate your natural GH. At my age, they would like to see an IGF-1 of 200 young guys in there late 30 they want to see an IGF-1 of 300. You did not state your age.

B12 shots has no connection to IGF-1 or GH so they may have seen something in your Defy blood test that suggests you should boost your B12. Me, I would do a mini blood test for B12 before supplementing. You can buy mini blood test from Defy at dirt cheap prices. Money well spent.
Over the last 6 years, I have spent more money on blood tests than drugs. I’m a retired engineer and just love data before acting.

2 Likes

The reason why the combo is important is because GHRH (growth hormone releasing hormone) and GHRP (growth hormone releasing peptide) have different roles, and when you put them together you get a really big synergistic affect. The idea is it not only to stimulate growth hormone production, but also stimulate growth hormone secretion through SS (somatostatin) inhibition.

IPAM is basically a GHRP without the glucose altering affect that GHRP has. So you still need to add Semorelin or CJC because it is basically Sermorelin, its just the compounded version.

As you can see in the image above, a combo works 3x better than the best singular peptide (GHRP) and dozens of times better than Sermorelin (GHRH).

This image above also confirms the need for multiple times daily dosing. As you can see GH levels are only above baseline for a couple hours at most. This is contrary to rhGH that would increase your GH levels for 8-12 hours, saturating the body and creating a curve that we call a “GH bleed”

As you can see in the image above levels go up and come right back down. A bleed means they go up and come down slowly ( like a long estered T). This is how a female produces GH naturally and this is why they generally have more water and fat retention than men I believe. This is why if they do the peptides, they need CJC w DAC. DAC is basically an ester like cypionate.

Men produce or secret GH up to 4 times per day. So to try and mimic that with peptides you need to be doing AT LEAST 2 shots per day of the peptides. These also need to be done while fasted, or on an empty stomach.

The reason why you need to do these on an empty stomach is because insulin suppresses GH secretion. So if you eat carbs your insulin spikes and the peptides will not work very well, if at all.

So each time you do a shot you need be fasted, and then wait 45 minutes before eating carbs. You can see on the graph thats when the peak is.

Hope this helps.

IPAM did nothing for me, it was like injecting water. I have insulin resistance.

1 Like

Did you read the above posts? Did you take it alone? Thats the first mistake.

You have to do it just as I mentioned or it doesn’t work as well.

Also, for men over 50, peptides are not always ideal because their effectiveness relies on the overall health of pituitary. We see a SEVERE reduction in GH once we pass 50, generally. For some men that number may be 60.

In other words, if someone has full blown adult growth hormone deficiency it is not going to work, and the patient needs rhGH. This is not very common and you would see unsealing wounds and shrinking organs usually accompanying it.

But if the patient is more suppressed than actual deficiency, the peptides work great, IF you do them correctly.

If you take just IPAM, it is not going to work.

So your pituitary is either kaput, or you didn’t do them properly.

Doing just IPAM once per day could actually end up being a net negative on GH secretion.

Also remember GH optimization isn’t like T. With T it increases your sex drive so you know its working.

GH is not a sex hormone, so you are not going to “feel” it per say. It is very subtle and for this reason it takes patients a long time to realize the benefit, because you need to actually see the benefits.

But there is nothing better, than T and GH. Nothing.

Androgens make the cell size bigger, GH increases the amount of cells. Huge synergistic effect and GH effects are more permanent than temporary like androgens.

1 Like

Thank you for the response I am 39 years old and just started TRT 10 years ago. I will get a B12 test on my next bloods.
My IGF-1 was just over 200

1 Like

So that is a big reason they do not want any carbs 3-4 hours prior to injection

1 Like