T Nation

Iodine Replacement/Body Temps etc


#1

Some background...for a few years now I've had a number of symptoms all associated with low testosterone (fatigue, slow metabolism, thinning hair etc). I had just attributed it to getting older (im 35 now) and working out a lot.

this past May 2015 I decided to do labs to see where I stood. Labs put me in the low 300s for test (done at a private lab), everything else seemed "normal". I have copies of the labs but don't have them on hand at the moment. I talked with my doctor, who apparently is an idiot. Then I came here and read a bunch of stickies from KSMAN and a number of others.

During all this reading, I found out about IR and how...my problem may not in fact be low test that is holding me back, but a slow thyroid which in turn is leading to my low test, fatigue etc etc. According to TSH labs, my condition is considered sub-clinical and a such my doctor wont be doing anything about it. In fact, I had to fight him just to order new testosterone labs to confirm the private labs I had done in May (6 months prior to asking my insurance doc).

In any case...I've been on IR for about 1.5 weeks. 48mg a day (24mg 2x day), 400mg selenium, an 2x a day ATP Cofactors.

Prior to beginning IR, my morning temps were about 96deg. Afternoon temps (even right after working out) never went above 97.5.

When I started IR, by the second day my morning temps were 97+ and my afternoon temps were 98+ (but never over 98.5.

However...one thing I've noticed is that...this only last a day or two. My temps have been back down to never going above low 97s. Prior to starting, I hadn't worked out in about 3 days. Now, im wondering if my temps are not rising because im killing myself in the gym (adrenal fatigue).

Anybody else notice their temp changes (or not) relative to exercise?

Ask any questions you need. Im sure this is not enough information.


KSman is Here
#2

I’ve been tracking my temps for a while and both thyroid and E2 levels affect my temps. When my Adex dose is off and my E2 is high, my temps tend to be 0.5 degrees lower. For me, getting my E2 right had a larger impact on my temps than IR.


#3

do you get labs done often or are you sure enough about whats going on that you can tell when your E2 is off? The last results I had for lab work was the following:

serum test: 314 ng/dl scale 348-1197
E2: 25.7 pg/ml scale 7.6- 42.6
PSA: .5 ng/dl scale 0-4.0
TSH (from memory)- 2.7 somethings on a scale of 1-5 somethings (it was right in the middle which is why my doc wont touch me)

I suppose in theory it could be that my E2 is too high relative to test, which…if im like you, may be affecting my temps (and not my thyroid).

Outside of getting labs constantly though, im not sure how I’d go about monitoring E2. How do you monitor your E2? Or are you just figuring its high because you missed your Adex?


#4

do you get labs done often or are you sure enough about whats going on that you can tell when your E2 is off? The last results I had for lab work was the following:

serum test: 314 ng/dl scale 348-1197
E2: 25.7 pg/ml scale 7.6- 42.6
PSA: .5 ng/dl scale 0-4.0
TSH (from memory)- 2.7 somethings on a scale of 1-5 somethings (it was right in the middle which is why my doc wont touch me)

I suppose in theory it could be that my E2 is too high relative to test, which…if im like you, may be affecting my temps (and not my thyroid).

Outside of getting labs constantly though, im not sure how I’d go about monitoring E2. How do you monitor your E2? Or are you just figuring its high because you missed your Adex?


#5

I identified high E2 mostly with labs, sometimes with symptoms. I’m an adex over-responder and spent a couple months with my E2 bouncing from too high to too low as I figured out my dose and frequency.

My E2 was in the mid- to high-30s. When it went down to the mid-20’s, my temps went up approx 0.5 degrees. I also noticed my metabolism significantly increased as well, which makes sense–we’re using temp as a proxy for measuring metabolism.

As far as I could tell, it was my level of E2, not the ratio of E2 to T. But if low-T has lowered your metabolism, then low temps would be the result.

98.6 is temp at the resting metabolic rate (in theory), so you would expect exercise to raise your metabolism and your temp. In the long run exercise should raise your resting metabolism (increased lean body mass), but shortly after exercise I have no idea if recovery would lower your body temps or if they should stay higher, and for how long. It’s a good question.


#6

Bit of an update…

Last i exercised was 7 days ago. Post workout, my temps were in the low 96-low 97 range. Gym had been closed since Wednesday last week and i have literally done nothing but eat and lay around.

Took the same dosages of pills since last week. Yesterday was my last day at 50mg day of iodine as the 750mg total should’ve been met. Today, i took only 12mg for maintenance. Measured my temp around 4pm and it was 98.4.

Tonight I’ll run a couple miles and tomorrow I’ll be back in the gym. I’m going to stay at 12mg but see how i react with my standard training (see if my temps go back down to 96-97).

For what its worth, i primarily do high volume compound movements for strength but my focus is on Olympic weightlifting. 2-3 hour sessions, 4 days a week .on off days i just do some light cardio and stretching. Diet is…mostly clean but not perfect by any means


#7

You need TRT, please read these stickies:

  • advise for new guys
  • things that damage your hormones
  • thyroid basics

TSH should be closer to 1.0
The lab ranges are misleading.
T3, fT3, T4, fT4 should be closer to mid range or a bit higher.

We you not using iodized salt before?

Labs:
TT
FT
E2
LH/FSH
prolactin
vit-D25
IGF-1
CBC with hematocrit
AM cortisol, please do at 8AM
fasting cholesterol
fasting glucose

Please post what labs you have in list format with ranges


#8

[quote]KSman wrote:
We you not using iodized salt before?

Labs:
TT
FT
E2
LH/FSH
prolactin
vit-D25
IGF-1
CBC with hematocrit
AM cortisol, please do at 8AM
fasting cholesterol
fasting glucose

Please post what labs you have in list format with ranges[/quote]

TT-314 ng/dl (348-1197ng/dl) TAKEN 5/2015
TT-327 ng/dl (240-871ng/dl) taken 10/2015
E2-25.7 pg/ml (7.6-42.6pg/ml) taken 5/2015
TSH- 2.7 (.35-4 mcIU/ml)
CBC-
WBC auto-6.4 (4-11 X1000/mcl)
RBC auto-4.87 (4.7-6.10 mill/mcl)
HGB- 16.1 (14-18 g/dl)
HCT auto- 44 (42-52%)
MCV- 90.2 (80-94 fL)
MCH- 33.1 (27-35 pg/cell)
MCHC- 36.7 (32-37g/dL)
RDW, blood- 12.9 (11.5-14.5%)
platelets automated count- 182 (130-400x1000/mcl)
Fasting Cholesterol- 147 (<199mg/DL)
Fasting Glucose- 93 (70-99mg/dl)

these are all the values I have at the moment. I’ve requested a new doc to see if they’ll order everything, or at least refer me to urologist or endocrinologist (they have a diabetes/metabolism doctor apparently).


#9

T is low, E2=25 makes you estrogen dominant.
If we had FT and/or SHBG, we would know a lot more.

HTC is good relative to your T levels. No sign of a GI bleed from digestive issues. We see that sometimes.

Total cholesterol could be closer to 180. Adjust diet accordingly. Not healthy below 160.

You need LH/FSH and prolactin to try to find the cause.

TSH and body temperatures are a problem.
Need TSH, fT3, fT4
Maybe a thyroid auto-immune problem.
May have resistance from doc/clinic because of normal range.

Symptoms:
feeling cold
generalized hair thinning
[sometimes low T]
sparse outer eyebrows
thyroid sore, enlarged, asymmetrical, lumpy
dry skin
low energy, libido, same as low T

We you not using iodized salt before?
We you not using iodized salt before?
We you not using iodized salt before?

Selenium is important in your diet to avoid thyroid autoimmune disease. Very important to take during IR.

Any progress with the stickies?


#10

today after work I’m going to see my new primary to see if she’ll refer me to the right person. My hope is that if she looks at my medical record, she’ll see that despite exercise/fairly good diet, my BMI doesn’t seem to be going down at all. Maybe this time, my fatness will save me and she’ll send me to endo/diabetes metabolism doctors.

as far as the stickies, I had read them previously before I posted. Will read again though. And probably again.

Regarding iodized salt, before all of this I typically never used any sort of salt. For no other reason than…foods were typically salty enough as is just by looking at the labels. Not because of any health concern I had. When I did add salt though it was iodized Morton’s. I’ve started using some with breakfast (eggs) and with other foods like veggies now.

still taking 12mg iodine a day along with 400mcg selenium and ATPCofactors (riboflavin and some B vitamins). I did adjust my workout routine though in order to see if that helps my body out any. Essentially, I was doing about 2-3hours 4 days a week and resting on off days. Im going to try spreading that out to 1-1.5 hrs over 5-6 days and see what happens with recovery.

once I read the sticky again and get some new labs, I will post up all of those numbers and stats (regarding body hair etc). In the beginning of this thread it was more along the lines of “I know something is wrong, is my exercise schedule making the problem worse? Should I just track my diet more as maybe im not getting enough calories, creating a “struggling” system?” At the very least I had already figured I was E2 dominant since puberty (pubertal gyno).

Will report back soon. Thanks for the assistance.


#11

Updated lab results. Taken 12/10/15

TSH 6 (.35-4 mciu/ml)
TSH 2.7 (.35-4 mciu/ml) ***pre- iodine/selenium
t4 free 1 (.8-1.5 ng/dL)
test, total 416 (240-871 ng/dL)
test, total 354 (240-871 ng/dL) ***pre-iodine/selenium
E2-25.7 pg/ml (7.6-42.6pg/ml) taken 5/2015. Tested 12/10, no results yet after 5 or so days.
Cortisol, serum 8.7 (no range listed (6-23 mcg/dL according to NIH))
A1C 5.4 (4.8-5.6%)
AST 31 (<34 U/L)
ALT 34 (<63U/L)
Vitamin D 34 (30-100 g/mL)
Cholesterol 152 (<199 mg/dL)
Triglyceride 57 (<149 mg/dL)
HDL 49 (>40 mg/dL)
LDL 92 (<99 mg/dL)
Cholesterol/High density lipoprotein 3.1 (<4.9)
cholesterol non-HDL 103 (no range listed)

-age - 35
-height - 5’10
-waist - ~40
-weight ~225-230
-describe body and facial hair - normal hair from knee down. Knee up gets thinner except for pubic. Elbow down, normal hair, elbow up is thin. No chest/back hair outside of around the nipple. Hair on stomach and low back. Some facial hair but cant grow a full beard/thick mustache.

-describe where you carry fat and how changed - carry mostly in stomach/chest. Some in thighs. Outside of getting heavier since about 2008, no change in where I carry. Doctors note of elevated transaminase levels in 2008 when I started noticing weight gain

-health conditions, symptoms [history] - Pubertal gynocomastia around…12/13 and ever since. Began having mild depression swings, difficulty losing weight after wife and I had children and I didn’t have much time to exercise around 2005. Attributed it to working 12+ hour days, little sleep/exercise.

-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever - None. Some ephedra supplments way back when it was legal, but nothing really outside of protein/creatine

-describe diet [some create substantial damage with starvation diets] - According to online calculators, should be eating approx. 2800 cal to lose weight. After tracking about 6 months ago, I was consistently eating about 1900-2200. This translates to me eating way under my requirements for roughly 10 years…without losing weight, and in fact, gaining. Today…I try to eat closer to 2800. Diet is mostly clean, with the occasional beer/cookies/junk food. Overall, I eat “ok”.

-describe training [some ruin there hormones by over training] - 4-5 days a week. Recently changed from 4 days/~3hours of strength and Olympic lifting (12 hours week) to 4 days/~1.5-2 hours (~8hrs a week). Currently focused on hypertrophy so lots of volume. Some light cardio on off days to include rowing, barbell complexes, and some jogging (just started jogging about 1 mile 2x a week).

-testes ache, ever, with a fever? - Never. Very rarely I will get some pain in perineum/testes after urinating. Feels like a muscle strain though. As if a muscle cramped trying to get all the urine out.

-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed- Less and less. Has seemingly gotten better with Iodine replacement. Maybe…4-5 days a week now. Noticeably less full though (compared to college days…about 10 years ago).

As for my new lab results, some things stood out to me. My test has increased about 80 points since beginning IR about 4 weeks ago (which is good). My TSH has also increased…which is bad. A1C looks to be high, diabetes runs in my family so that sort of concerns me. Im not sure what to make of my ft4.

From my very basic understanding, my pituitary seems to be ok as evidenced by increased TSH. But my thyroid is not ok as temps still avg 97.6 w/ 12mg Iodine. The doctor didn’t order t4, or rt3, only ft4…so I don’t know if I can make a determination that my thyroid isn’t “spitting out enough juice”. At the moment, I can only guess that my increase in test is due to IR doing some improvement on thyroid function or caused by other means (gonad?)…

doctor made a referral to the endo though because of the TSH level. Will likely get additional labs requested by him/her. Is there anything that I should be asking when I get to them? (e.g. estrogen dominance, IR, the need to take T4 drugs etc)

Lastly…so this all has created a downhill spiral in that I need to lose weight to get my thyoid to work (hopefully) but I cant lose weight easily because my thyroid is slow/non-functional. Is there such a thing as “short term TRT” to assist mostly in losing weight to get my thyroid back online or is that asking for trouble? I only see mention of TRT being a permanent course of action…though they also do not mention HCG. Im thinking it is fine as long as my TRT would include HCG and when im ready…I can simply taper off.


#12

not sure if the edit took: Additional info for medical history. Gyno since puberty…maybe around 12-13ish. Didn’t realy create any problems with wood, muscle gain etc. But was/is pretty obvious gyno


#13

Prolactin can lower LH/FSH and that lowers T. Prolactin can lead to gyno.

Taking iodine can increase TSH, but 6.0 is insane. Doc needs to know about the iodine.

fT4 is a bit low
TSH should be closer to 1.0
The lab ranges are misleading.
T3, fT3, T4, fT4 should be closer to mid range or a bit higher.

You will need to get the missing labs to get better answers.


#14

I have an appt this coming Tuesday with the endo. Hopefully i can convince him to do those tests. In the meantime, because my tsh blew up with IR, should i stop IR? Probably putting a lot of stress on a possibly non functional organ no?


#15

Hope that you are getting selenium as well.


#16

Yes. 12mg iodine, 400mg selenium, 200?mg b2/b3.

Rescheduled the endo appt. Still taking the above daily. If anything, i feel a bit more energy. Not sure if it’s the b vitamins or the result of increased test based on last labs.

Still unsure if i should keep at 12mg a day as tsh was super high or decrease dosage to eod e2d. Will get some more labs after endo appt and see where i stand.


#17

just to get a clear opinion,

should I continue with iodine considering my TSH has shot up so much?


#18

Large amounts of iodine do increase TSH levels. This is well understood. There have been doctors that stated that taking iodine causes hypothyroidism because in there pool of ignorance, they equate high TSH with hypothyroidism. Now is your result extreme? yes

You could reduce your iodine dose.