T Nation

Investing in Schools Creates More Than Twice as Many Jobs as Military Spending


Another reason to cut military spending and invest in the public arena.



While I agree in cutting military spending, I disagree that the answer to our school problems is throwing more money at them. Investing to me means physical involvement not checkbooks.



The answer IS money, but not in the way most would assume when we say put more money into education. Give teachers a higher salary while getting rid of the tenure system, or at least making the job more of a merit-based one where good teachers are not earning the same as some shithead teacher with no motivation to help students anymore. Pay scales based on seniority, combined with tenure, just breed complacency.

More money needs to be used for educational tools rather than school lunches or paying a bunch of administrators who don't actually do much in terms of educating students. Like virtually everything else these days, the bureaucracy involved with public education has run rampant, and that is where the money always ends up. It doesn't go toward teacher salaries that would entice more people with the talent to teach and it doesn't go toward educational tools like computers or high quality, up-to-date textbooks.


I disagree about higher pay. Higher pay doesn't necessarily translate to higher performance. See any number of CEOs as proof. Money can't be a deterrent but once you get past the number needed to pay bills, save for retirement, etc.

Agree about moving the money from the administration to actual education. It's another example of bureaucracy adding an unnecessary layer of cost and waste.



Since when is forced wealth confiscation and redistribution considered an investment? LMAO uterus brain - aka DB - and Zep agreeing that putting more of my hard earned money in DB's estrogen-oozing hands is going to accomplish anything but make kids more stupid than they were when they showed up - which public school students have been doing very consistently since 1978 (cue Zep's not having a clue about what happened that year)

Home school >>>> private school >>>>public school. All the time, any time, every time, and twice on Sunday's

Public school is an abysmal failure. Anyone sucking on that tit is a party to this country's failures. And DB wants a raise. What a twat.


Are you a communist or something?


The theory behind higher pay for teachers is that it will attract more people to the job market and give employers more to choose from. More people to choose from means a better chance at higher-quality employees being in that pool.


I'm not sure that it's pay or social norms that are keeping people out of the teacher job market. According to the USC Rossier Online blog the average teacher salary in Ca is $67k but that's the average and reflect actual pay which would vary based on district, tenure, and educational level of the teacher. There's also a good benefit package available for them.

I might have been wrong when speaking about administrative salaries as according to http://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/fr/sa/cefavgsalaries.asp the amount allocated for administrative salaries is only 6ish percent.



Get rid of teacher Unions, fire the incompetent teachers, reward the teachers who excel with their students.

Problem solved.


So if a teacher is making 55K a year and gets a 2.5 month vacation....does that not add up to a pretty good salary??


You also forgot to add, that you can officially feed your kids cookies covered with your semen, film it, and still enjoy your job and pension. At least you can here in California.


What do you base your hierarchy on?

The elementary school we're zoned for is excellent but there's a lot of parent involvement. We also have a number of excellent charter schools around us.



I'm also wondering about this a bit. Why do you say homeschool is better than private school? I mean I can understand if you say private school trumps public school, but I don't see what would be so great about homeschooling. I found the homeschool kids in general to be really socially awkward, which in the grand scheme of things can be way more damaging than not learning your third foreign language as far as earning a living is concerned.


So you deny the evidence being presented? What is your proof that it is wrong?


I totally agree with the home schooling thing. I played baseball with a couple kids growing up who were homeschooled and those kids were Grade-A Weirdos. Socially-awkward in every sense of the term. I also coached a kid who was homeschooled a few years ago and he was even weirder.

The home schooled kids don't get the chance to work in a group setting, they don't gain all those important experiences that happen outside of the classroom and on the playground (like learning how to assert yourself, learning when to shut up, developing a sense of humor, the ever-important feeling of rejection, they don't learn what it is like to hurt someone's feelings and then be ostracized for it, they don't learn the value of being the leader of a group and so forth), and they hardly are going to get the same quality of education that they would at either a public or private school unless their parents are really smart and well-informed. And if they were smart and well-informed they wouldn't subject their kids to home schooling in the first place.

But above all, the kids who are home schooled don't learn the value of competition amongst their peers, for grades, the attention of the teacher, the attention of the opposite sex, etc etc. And when their parents finally break down and decide to introduce them to something like organized team sports, which is the best place for them to learn what they aren't getting at a regular school, the consequences can be horrific. Kids are like sharks. They smell blood and they go for it, and a home schooled kid who the others don't know from school is like a seal with a gaping wound to them.

I had similar experiences, albeit on a minor level, because I went to a private school growing up and didn't know a lot of the kids I played sports with from school.


I just don't see how teachers get paid a good wage and get 5x more vacation than any other workers.

And moan like they work in the gulag.


Doesn't solve the real problem: incompetent parents and their spawn. Too many people ignore that there are two main parts to education: the educator and the ones being educated.


The Gulag would be a step up from Chicago, Detroit or Camden.


Teachers don't work normal 40 hour work weeks though. Teachers are paid a salary based on the time that they are in the classroom teaching. They aren't paid one red cent for the extra hours they spend grading papers/tests or formulating lesson plans. And coming up with lesson plans, to a dedicated teacher, is a task that takes a LOT of time outside of the classroom. This is especially so for teachers like myself.

I was in my first year as a history teacher this year, so I didn't have any lesson plans already formed and tried out. New teachers have a TON of work to do in this respect. It is made easier if you have other history teachers at your school that are really good and are willing to share with you what aspects of lesson-planning has worked for them. But in my specific case, the other two history teachers at the school who deal with the grades I teach are actually pretty horrendous and while they are willing to help me out, I'm better off doing it by myself.

It gets easier as a teacher gains more experience and learns what does and does not work. But a good teacher is always looking to improve upon lesson plans and that sort of thing. And of course, for history teachers it is also important to stay abreast of current events so that you can incorporate them into certain lessons. Part of history is learning how what happened yesterday affects us today.

I'm not saying that teachers are working in a gulag, only that they do much more work than most people realize. While we may have the summers off, we are still working over the summer on the next year's lessons and implementing whatever improvements we feel need to be made into them. And dedicated teachers will also spend the summers trying to learn more about their subject as well. No one knows everything there is to know about what they do for a living, but in the education field it is important to stay ahead of the curve in that respect. I remember when I was doing my student teaching internship the instructor I was with would get asked at least one question a day where he simply had no clue what the answer was. They were usually tangentially related to the lesson at hand, but still, when a student asks the teacher a question about the subject he's teaching, it's always better to have the answer at hand than not.


So a teacher's job is harder earlier in their career, but as they gain experience the job gets easier. How is that differant than any other career? Also DB, once you have your lesson plans for this year, won't they only need to be tweaked going forward? I mean history doesn't really, um, change.

Don't teachers get a planning period/mod anyway. So you teach for what 6 hours a day, is that accurate? Plus every single gov holiday plus June-end of August off?