T Nation

Introducing AI Late in Cycle


#1

The stats shared are all recent and post my shoulder reconstruction as of 7 month ago. Because of motocross injuries…
Age:24
Lifting: 7 years
Wieght: 232lbs
Bench:235lbs
Front squat: 275lbs
Deadlift: 475lbs
On my first cycle of test 500mgs a week. Read up on some info stating that AI’s were over used and abused because of paranoia about symptoms. I didn’t use an AI for the first three and a half weeks of my test. Do you think Androgen receptors could be blocked by E2 that quickly into a long Ester cycle if so how can I make this cycle still worth something.? I have already seen gains in strength and libido but water retentions gone up. Thought I was seeing gyno but just lots of water retention I’m thinking because of high E2. How quickly will a long ester test (enethate) aromatize and block receptors with no AI? Please merge if necessary and thanks for any response I’m brand new to all of this.


#2

Water retention is normal. Obviously if it’s out of control then it’s time for an AI. Are you having other symptoms? Because higher e2 is actually good for building muscle. But there’s a point at which it passes the realm of beneficial and goes into the world of “oh shit I have boobs and I’m crying when’s i see puppies”.


#3

What’s your body fat like? From your weight to bench ratio I’m guessing a little higher no offense. E2 issues are gonna be more common the higher your BF. I think you could run an ai and see if it gets under control. Your still early in the cycle and have not hit the sweet spot yet. Drink lots of water, make sure your eating well, and lift like you only have 9 weeks left. If your splitting your shot twice weekly I’d split the AI as well. .25-.5mg adex 12 hrs after each shot is what I’d recommend.


#4

.25 - .5 arimidex is wayy too much for any male human on any amount of test.


#5

It keeps my e2 between 20 and 35 on all my labs. Considering switching to nolva for the long term though as I’m a TRT guy. That’s exactly what I take. .5 twice a week. Without it I show gyno symptoms even when staying lean


#6

Can someone explain this to me? What exactly does this mean. I have never heard of this


#7

No offense taken. I was down around 8 to 9% before surgery, after not being able to do any physical activities for 4 and 1/2 months and painkillers I am now 18%. I was hoping the cycle may help me get back to a place or I felt better. I am now back in the gym 5 days a week but still eating big (I always have and never had issues with wieght.)


#8

To my understanding, mind you I’m still learning. Certain forums of estrogen if not managed will attach to the androgen receptor and not allow testosterone or other forms of free test to be utilized.


#9

Intresting. Im not saying your wrong because i genuinely have no idea. I have just never heard this. Im having a hard time finding much about it. It makes me wonder if it is correct how much estrogen are we talking about?

If anyone has anymore insight on this plz share @physioLojik @iron_yuppie? Any thoughts


#10

aroma rates are very dependent on individual factors - chem, diet, DNA, stress etc etc.Receptors are not “blocked” they are occupied or unoccupied. Estrogen doesn’t attach preferentially to AR over Test - they both are equals. This is an idea that gets so blown out of proportion to real life - let me explain:

Imagine your receptors are spaces in a garage. lets say you have 100 spaces where either test or e can park. If your ratio of t to e is fine, it doesn’t matter what the damn number is as the same ratio of t will park - its why high e to t is bad because than a higher number of e can attach versus t. but in the case of high t, having higher e but in the right ratio wont matter because you have way more t competing for spots. also remember using testosterone increases the amount of androgen receptors so you have more available parking –

sorry so fast I have in laws visiting from India haha


#11

Some people are taking .5 EOD… what he suggested is actually a really good starting point. Too many people are over using AIs and crashing E2.


#12

Why do you say that? Is it because thats the recommended bro dose recycled around forums? Doses of .25 .5 will throw the androgen/estrogen ratio off with just 1 single dose.


#13

Actually I hear very little people recommending a dose as minimal as mine. What would you recommend then?


#14

Firstly I’d say exhaust injection protocols. Then if e2 is still a problem start with miniscule doses. I cant make any recommendations but i know the usual recommendations are too much. All we want to do is partially block the aromatase enzyme so it slows aromatase not fully plug it. Lets not forget adex was designed to nuke estrogen so the manufacturers wouldn’t have held back on the potency.


#15

I believe .25 adex with each injection (granted you’re pinninng twice a week) is a minuscule dose. And I absolutely don’t doubt the potency of adex, unlike a lot of misguided people who’ve crashed E2. I think that’s a fair dose to start at, of course some won’t need an AI at all. It’s all individual.


#16

Its a mammoth dose.


#17

Is it by any chance because you recently had a kid and then all the in laws are like “we’re visiting”, happens with my family whenever a special event occurs.

Just before my 18th (family wedding coming up) we had eleven people staying at our house (7+my nuclear family)… And we don’t even live in Sydney (where the wedding took place)…


#18

You realise to ‘nuke’ estrogen arimidex is prescribed to women with breast cancer at 1mg per day. These guys are suggesting 0.25mg to 0.5mg twice a week. That’s 0.5-1mg a week, as apposed to the 7mgs per week prescribed to ‘nuke’ estrogen. What do you mean potency? Arimidex is arimidex, 1mg doesnt mean the pill is 1mg and the dosage of arimidex can vary. A 1mg pill of arimidex is 1mg of arimidex.


#20

The recommended bro doses block too much aromatase enzyme and occupy it for too long. Adex also causes test to shuttle more towards its other metabolite DHT. DHT itself also naturally antagonizes e2. So not only are you getting the effects from the ai itself you are also increasing the bodies own e2 antagonist.


#21

You fail to take into account how individualized AI dosing is. What you suggest is a mammoth dose may well be for one person but to another it might fail to do anything at all. You aren’t looking at the big picture in anything you put forward.