T Nation

Intro/History. Test Crash. Peptides - SARMS. Advice?


I have come here to get some insights to keep my health in check. It appears there is a wealth of knowledge here.

In your case/thread opening post:
-28 years old
-size 34/36
-Face hair grows reasonalbly well, Leg hair long and black, Chest hair long/black/light, Full head of thick hair, Arm hair blond/short/light
-I carry fat in my legs and abdominal
-Diagnosed with major depressive disorder, I relapse every couple of years, slowly coming out of a brake down.
-Started Rx - 200mg Primoestion Depot every two weeks - In 3rd week
– real dangers! see this http://propeciahelp.com/overview52
-lab results with ranges
-testes ache sometimes, I just ejaculate a few times and all good.
-how have morning wood and nocturnal erections were nil until placed on TRT.

I started training 5-6 years ago, I went from 130kgs down to 75kgs before I actually took a massive liking to the gym and then wanted to build muscle. I started of powerlifting eating massive amounts of food, but it wasn’t for me. I transitioned to bodybuilding eventually getting to 85kgs probs 12% BF. Slowly started meeting the right people and learning proper nutrition, started eating like a machine and trying every off the shelf supplement.

Whilst I was doing this my doctor was monitoring my blood work, If a supplement wasn’t doing what it claimed, I dropped it… Simple. I then started using CJC-1295, GHRP-6, Sarms S22. I loved the intramuscular injections of the S22 and the pump i gained. I made it to 95kgs @ 8%, after taking on Charles Poliquin Strength and conditioning program training at 11am and 530pm these workouts were killers.

Diet was roughly - Per week
14.5kgs of meat, Steak, Cold roast beef, Chicken, Fish
50 eggs
7 avocados
And however much of sweet potato and broccoli I could fit in

One day out of the blue I stopped going to the gym, well not out of the blue i failed to get lean enough for a comp and moved states, started commercial fishing every morning eating 2 bacon egg muffin meals and 7 hashbrowns. Yet within 4 months was back down to 75kgs. ( Heart Broken ) but that’s what I got for neglecting my diet.

Maybe two years later, I had a car hit me head-on while I was on a chook chaser (dirt bike), Shattered knee, 4 brain hemorrhages. I don’t remember sheit, I had my first surgery at the time of the accident however they elected not to reconstruct my knee. My knee was in a brace and locked out at 180* for 6 weeks while my shattered knee cap healed, and over 3 months the doc kept giving more range of movement. It was still stuffed. I had a PCL graft, Meniscus and one other tendon repair. I was out of action again.

Over the following year I went back up to 125 - 130kgs, something had to be done, Against my partner’s wishes I started - AOD, HCG, CJC. Stupidly didn’t take the gym seriously so it was wasted.

I drew a line in the sand and decided to go extreme. With my history of nutrition, training and we’ll just understanding how my body responds to changes, supplements and food types. I decided starvation diet was going to achieve the best and quickest results for me. I calculated my BMR which was approximately 2000cals. I decided less than 500cals would be sufficient to keep my vital functions working. For nearly 2 months I was losing 2.5kgs per week. Without any physical exercise. If you do the calculations of my BMR and what 1/2 a pound of body fat equals in calories. 2.5kgs is very achievable.

I found myself researching the latest fat burners as we all know products which were legal one day in Aus are illegal the next. (Bring back the real Jacked 3D) I then came across ATP Science Block E and Subcut. I was so very skeptical, I invested and started using both products 3 times a day even though I’m not training.

In 5 days I went through my first batch. I applied both products to my calves, quads, hamstrings, glutes, love handles and belly. Within 2 days I went from size 40 jeans to size 38, on the 6th day I could fit into size 36 jeans, on the 9th day I was in size 34. I had changed nothing in my diet strategy if anything since starting Block E and Subcut I started to have more energy, want to eat more food and did. But best of all, they have made me want to drink water and lots of it.

I then wanted to take it to the next level, ATP Science reps advised me to include Alpha Venus and Mars. Was taking for a week at the recommended dosage. However, went away on a motorbike trip it was too hard to keep the supplement routine. This is where I started to notice loss of libdo, ED etc. I thought nothing of it at first, thought it would bounce back.

I was then shown SARMS so I order them, GW-501616, YK-11, S4, started light training. I went to my doctor of 14 years and had my Test and Est taken, went back in for the results was instantly referred to an endocrinologist. However, I was already back and forth moving states and had a mental breakdown, didn’t make it to the appointment.

3 months later my abs were coming back, I went to my new GP as I had finalized my move. Had my Test and Est taken again, was instantly referred to and andrologist. I saw the Professor that week. He was really hesitant about HRT and was talking about other drugs that could kick start my natural production again (assuming Clomid). He asked for more blood work to be done. Test, Est, LH, FSH, DHEAs. I went back to see him 4 days later my test was now at 8. He didn’t mention anything about these other drugs, He proceeded to say now your test is 8 to get PBS (government subsidy) you need to be 6, do you want to wait for it to drop further.

I said no, I have private health cover, He proceeded to discuss Orals, Gels and injections. I had already told him I use to use Peptides so he recommended against Orals or gel. I said I was fine with injections. He proceeded to write a script for Primoteston 1ml every 2 weeks, Blood work to be done at 12 weeks, follow up with the Professor at 3 months. If I don’t feel my energy, libdo, ED or depression being resolved he is happy to increase my dosage.

The professor the started recommending I get my sperm stored, At first the blew my mind. He did say some men become infertile, However, the examination of my testis. He said you should be right as he expected my testis to be much smaller in relation to my low Test of 8. And said for me it would be just a precaution.

The drive home was weird, It never really hit me until then how much I wanted kids, and it wasn’t until later that night it clicked, I knew people who abused gear and just did a decent PCT and had kids no issues.

That night was Tuesday night 3 weeks ago, I went fuck it, and pulled out my first kit. Holy Sheit, the gauge of the needle. Was nothing like an insulin needle for peptides. I proceeded to jab my quad, It hurt won’t deny it, even 3 days I can still feel the pain in my quad albeit nowhere near as bad as that night.

That first night was interesting, erections all night long with the best morning glory I have had in a very long time.

The following morning I went to have bloods taken.

Test 28
Est 153

The second night, was date night at the movies, was horny as fuck. Then had a wet dream that night, The third night, Again erections all night with the best morning glory. Overall my appetite has increased.

Then the Friday of the end of week two I had blood test again.

Test 17
Est 70

So I have a few questions regarding what I have been prescribed, How I can enhance it and get back training and get my body back.

In relation to natural Test production what does 1ml equate to every two weeks?

At this level should I be concerned about Estrogen?

Is the increase in my appetite a placebo?

What dosage should I try to be upped to?

Could I contact him in a month’s time to say my energy etc isn’t improving can we up the dosage if I supply the blood work I’m getting done?

What does the wealth of knowledge in hear think I should do in terms of getting back in the gym and diet. Just back to what I know worked? Or something different?

Should I start taking my SARMS again?

Did the ATP Science crash my test as I think it did?

Was it the HCG or AOD that crashed my test?

Body stats before HRT

15% BF
diet poor and not interested in food

Body stats at end of week 2
Still 6’1 hahahah
18% BF
Diet drastically improved and hungry all the time

I had a pinch test done yesterday which confirmed the majority of weight is water. It sucks.

Pinch test was performed by someone who competes so I trust what he was saying, He also believed there was minimal differences in the last pinch test not completed by him to the test he did yesterday. therefore, he believes my BF% hasn’t really gone up just differences in who performed the test.

I have started back at the gym on Monday, feeling great. No real doms, but I never use to get them any way, only when I first started training many moons ago.

Have done Chest / Bi’s and Back / Tri’s. next workout is shoulders and core followed up by my fav legs.

What I know so far is, the first 2 weeks were a roller coaster, Every aspect improved the first week until I started to crash. I want to be on 1ml every week.

Thoughts / Opinions

I think I should be prescribed Armidex, How should I talk to the Doc about that? My GP wont prescribe it.

Thoughts / Opinions

Sorry for the very long post, I hope you take the time to read it.

Thanks in advance


I’m on the same Primoteston Depot, and the needles that are supplied in the kit look downright scary.

My doctor gave me a pile of 21 gauge pins, which are somewhat less threatening. Someone else recommended 23 gauge.

Priceline Pharmacy will sell you needles, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Chemist Warehouse do too. I think that they come in a standard size, so you could just get a box of something smaller.


Thanks Graemsay,

The needles don’t bother me yet, my second injection did bleed a little however, a smaller gauge would probably stem that issue.

The corking of my quad, I have a feeling is due to the test not the gauge needle. Do you know?

Cheers for the info.

How are you finding the peak and crash?


I find that the injection site can be tender or sore for a few days too. I suspect the testosterone or the solvent​ causes it.

I don’t know if I’m getting the same highs off a shot as you, so I’m not noticing the drop off to the same extent.

The first had me feeling a bit better, but my libido came and went during the first week. There was a drop off on day seven, and I went back to normal.

The second shot had me feeling good for a fortnight, but the third didn’t feel like it did anything.

The fourth, my current shot, had me feeling reasonably good for a week, but it felt down on day seven or eight. I had a bout of depression on days 11 and 12, and I currently feel like I’m running on empty.

My fifth injection is tomorrow, so I’ll see how it goes.

I haven’t had any side effects, other than a few spots, and bodyhair seems to be slightly thicker. Unfortunately I’ve not turned into The Rock either.

I’m a similar weight to you, but have a really high level of SHBG. I know it’s unfashionable around here, but I’d like to try doubling the dose to do weekly injections. I’m seeing my doctor next week, so will discuss with him.


TRT guys inject T with #29 1/2" 0.5ml insulin syringes, slow but it works. SC injections work too and 1/2" also does IM.

Posting lab data without lab ranges is totally useless.

Use anastrozole and aim for E2=22pg/ml - 80 pmol/L

Thyroid has a very strong influence on energy, metabolism and fat loss/gain. See last paragraph in this post.

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.


Thanks mate,

Have lightly read through the stickies, they make sense. Are you basically asking me to scrap this tread and start again as per forum stickies suggest?


I can relate to your story so much! Farkn sucks big time not being able to reliably get the help we need and having to rely on forums so much to get help. It fucking kills me that we can’t just trust our doctors.
In my line of work I do everything I can to stay well up to date on what’s happening, to provide my clients the best possible outcomes, if they’re are people who are more suited to a clients needs then I refer on. The lack of integrity kills me


100%, when i was a gym rat my gp would support me in the way of blood tests even if i was to change something like an off the shelf supplement. But that was as far as she would go. So that was good i could stop taking something if it was impacting on my blood in the expected manner.

Then I get to my andrologist, where over the years i have collected more knowledge from my years in the gym and reading forums, medical journals and even when i provide him with the literature he still says no.

The only good thing is he allwed me to have my say in my dosage.


The level of ignorance kills me! Hopefully we can collectively work out how 2 make it work here is Aus!


I wonder if there is a way to create an Australian group or a thread of some descript to easily manage what people find for Aus trt


I assume just create a thread? Unless there is a better way, got no idea the ins and outs of forums