Gabe, my reply to you would be: Did you attempt to get the most out of your education and your professors by continually asking questions and challenging them and their beliefs? Or, rather, did you sit back and just take it for what it was worth, trying to just get your grades and get out of Dodge?
There’s a huge difference. Even in the least formidable of settings, if you choose the former route, you can make the very most out of something that may seem very little.
Hey all. I don’t post much, but I’ve been lurking for the last year or two.
I totally agree with the sentiment here, as I graduated last year with a degree in bio and psych from one of the top universities in the country and I can say that nearly everything I learned in bio and physio pertaining to exercise phys and nutrtion science was either outdated or just wrong.
Timbo, I agree that you only get out of it what you put into it, and my only regret is that I didn’t challenge my profs even more than I did. Live and learn, I guess.
Anywho, my main point in posting is simply that I think we should just stop and think for a sec and be appreciative that we know what we know and that we continue to seek knowledge. I know that sometimes after reading some of the things people here and on a few other sites have to say, I begin to feel that I don’t really know that much. But in reality, the great majority of us who come here know a great deal more than mr. or mrs. joe public, and we are in a small minority.
Here’s to never settling for average and never accepting the status quo without question. Peace.
J
J (seekup)…That was a very insightful post. I thank you and hopefully the rest see the value of it:-)
You’re right, unless you’re JB or something, it’s very difficult to be very knowledgeable on every topic that is discussed on this forum. It’s a constant learning experience for me, as it sounds like it is for you. And that’s how it should be.
That’s what I’m talking about! Constantly pushing the envelope–the mind and the body!
Later. T-Rock
I would just like to throw something out here. Ko and I had been discussing the values of HIIT over steady state cardio. Seriously. We were drinking beer while discussing, but that just allowed us to produce a more “colorful” discussion :-))
One thing that was brought up was how some people like to boast about their “great” cardio abilities; like, riding the bike or running the treadmill “forever”. And the thought popped into my head: seeing ALL those people in gyms on the cardio equipment. Everyday. Every hour of the day. If steady state cardio was sooo tough, soooo difficult: would all those people be doing it?
For years, I performed steady state cardio. Once I switched to HIIT, I became THAT much more conditioned in a short matter of time. This was before I even knew what HIIT was. The benefits of HIIT are very obvious for me. And I’m a 37-year old woman who shouldn’t be able to remain lean or eat enormous amounts of food; hell, even drink beer without storing pockets of fat.
Perhaps I’m “dumbing” down this thread. But I just thought I’d throw in a “simple” observation.
Trish, it’s about damn time you chimed in!
Always good to hear from you. And yes, a good brewskie or two always leads to some very colorful and insightful conversation:-)
Anyway, despite your self-proclaimed dumbing down, this is exactly what we’re talking about. The actual dumbing down stemmed from: [quote]low-intensity burns more fat.[/quote]
I guarantee that the adaptations from HIIT will make your metabolism that much more efficient (for a review, see JB’s The Winning Formula).
I will say this, though. Steady-state cardio does not have to be that easy or that prolonged. As a matter of fact, for some time I was performing a method of cardio that I would consider as intense or more intense that HIIT. It was basically 15-20 minutes of hell, all-out hell. You exercised as hard as you could for the entire time (i.e. sprint as hard as possible the whole time). Now, if all those steady-staters performed at this level of intensity, I guarantee they’d see favorable changes in body composition.
Anyway, quality and much-appreciated observation, Trish.
T-Bone
I’ve done all types of cardio - HIIT for sports, Timbo’s style of constant intense, and low intensity. Low intensity is BY FAR the easiest one. I’ve noticed that when I do HIIT, I can eat more and look leaner - just an increase in BMR (basal metabolic rate). Plus, I get tired much quicker doing this, so you have two benefits - increase BMR and less amount of time doing cardio.
I hate arguing with professors, but it needs to be done, only properly, at times. I’ve made profs look at things in a different light, and damn did it feel good.
Ah, whah t’anks Timbonator.
However the " The actual dumbing down stemmed from: low-intensity burns more fat."
Is for also to make exercise or physical activity, “inviting” to the general populace. Or even “user friendly”.
Annoying, I know. Since most of use enjoy challenges; and if there are no challenges, what’s the use? However, the general public believes differently. And that’s unfortunate since it boils down to what you said not needing to make steady state that easy or prolonged. It’s intensity we’re looking for.
I tell you what, here’s something that woke me up to how not necessarily useless, but “easy” steady state cardio was: when I began training for the Hood to Coast. This is the largest relay in the country. It’s 200 miles and is ran by teams of 12 runners (6 in each van). Each runs three legs; mine were 6 (ran at 5PM on a Friday), 7 (ran at 1AM on Saturday), and 4.7 (Saturday afternoon) miles each. I trained for a total of 3-weeks of road work. I ended up running a 8-min. mile. I do not attribute this to any type of athletic ability. But firmly believe that since I can do this (with asthma), than anyone can. Anyone
As for interval training: it kicks my ass. All the time. I’m drained; I’m tired; I’m sweating buckets after a session. Be it heavy bag, jump rope, sprinting or whatever. But the rewards are that much more greater. Especially in the area of improved athletic performance. I don’t loose LBM like I did running; I lose BF.
I’m a little disappointed. I expected to learn from this thread the scientific basis of why interval training burns fat so well. I was in the process of researching this on my own and I couldn’t get an answer I was sure of. Instead, I’ll pass along what I think I learned and let some expert correct me.
There are 6 energy pathways in the body, and they all work to some degree all the time when doing moderate exercise. The lipolysis (fat burning) mechanism is least used in low intensity exercise and gradually increases in importance as intensity increases. (Am I right so far?)
When the body is suddenly called upon to do some high intensity work, there is an immediate O2 deficit, so the energy systems respond in this order:
Stored ATP is used up, and this lasts only about the first 4 seconds
Stored phosphate and creatine are then used up, which lasts 20-45 seconds
Now glycogen is broken down anaerobically, producing pyruvate and lactic acid, which provides energy for 120-240 seconds
Some lactic acid is broken down to ATP, also in the 120-240 second period
After about 120 seconds, the O2 supply builds up, and glycogen is aerobically broken down to pyruvate and the pyruvate converted to ATP inthe presence of O2
Finally the fatty acids are converted to acetyl-CoA and converted to energy for the remaining time.
(Did I get that right?)
Now, the first high-intensity interval gets you to burning fatty acids ASAP, but the lower level energy systems start recharging atthe same time and will eventually start helping out again. The subsequent high-intensity intervals keep exhausting the anaerobic systems as they recharge so they can’t help out in the moderate intensity intervals. (Right?)
I think that’s how it works. Anybody care to correct me?
Now that sounds pretty intense T-Diddy. When you did your “cardio from hell” where you go 100% the whole 15-20 min, how fast were you sprinting at the beginning, and then at the end.
Also I assume you had to build up to this if you were actually going 100% the entire time.
Or do you mean that you did something like IBUR but without timing anything, ie you sprint until it turns into a jog, then when your brain gets enough oxygen, and you can realize you are no longer sprinting (LOL) you kick it into high gear again.
Too much after about 400m my sprint turns into more of a Limping 
I can’t imagine sprinting for 15 min.
From what I’ve learned from my biochem classes, Acetyl CoA goes into the Citric Acid cycle. Since this is the hub of AEROBIC metabolism, doing HIIT will not allow this to happen, since HIIT is anaerobic metabolism. This could be what happens afterwards, when the oxygen deficiency becomes replenished.
I could be wrong, but this is just what I’ve learned. Also, Acetyl CoA is made from HCO3- (Carbonic Acid I believe), which comes from an acidic environment. This environment comes from a lactic acid buildup.
I hope this made sense. I could be wrong though. Anyone else?
Hey guys, just how long are we talking about for an effective hiit session? Can the intervals be in random incriments or do they have to be set up beforehand?
Here’s my 2 sprint routines, 1 for an indoor track and another for outside
Indoor:
3 min warmup, light stretching
sprint 1/2 lap
jog lap
repeat last 2 about 10-12 times
cool down 3-5 min.
stretch
Outside Open Field:
3 min warmup, light stretching
sprint 30 sec
jog 30 sec to 1 min
repeat 10-12x
cool down 3-5 min
stretch
This a better idea for you?
Just wanted to second Timbo’s point:
If you are passionate, you will push the envelope…Him and I were just talking about this in a PM’s back and forth.
Just like Timbo, I have spent many weekends, nights and days reading journal articles…Given that I am a research psychologist by trade, this is not as boring as it may sound, and I realize its not for everyone…BUT, if this is your passion, or you think it may be, there is no 75%…its 100% or nothing…I know its hard to swallow, but you have got to go hard at all times…this means mentally as well as physically.
A quote from Missy Elliot (although I am not terribly fond of her music) illustrates the point:
“It took me a long time to get here. I can’t be stopped. I know there’s somebody out there that’s way more talented, so I have to stay thirsty. You have to remain thristy or you get tired. You have to love what you do…No. You don’t have to love it. You have to think you’re going to die without it.”
Vizzy…You’re always pushing the envelope, brutha. That’s what being a T-Man or T-Vixen is all about (just ask Trish). A quote from Missy! Hell yeah, never thought I’d catch one on the T-Forums. You better keep an eye out for me posting one from Luda(cris) some day:-)
Bulldog…When I did that form of cardio, I either used a bike or an elliptical. I don’t think I ever tried it spriting or on a treadmill. But, I strongly feel that you can get one freaking great workout on any piece of equipment. Now, when I did that, I just tried to maintain the highest intensity possible the entire time. It was more draining than any weight training session–psychologically and physically. The mental stress could definitely put you in an overtrained state quickly. I would stop once per session (or twice) to get a drink and to catch my breath (yeah right!). I think that HIIT can be just as effective and a little more friendly (never thought I’d say that!).
Yorik…You’re off, bro, but I’m short on the clock to expand right now. I will say that lipolysis is highest at low intensities. Again, that’s part of the reason why low-intensity, steady-state exercise is dominant. People believe that because they burn a higher percentage of kcals from fat during low-intensity exercise that they should perform this. That’s flawed. As you approach about 60% of VO2max, lipolysis starts to decrease and muscle glycogen (and carbohydrate usage) starts to increase. At high intensities, like that which would be performed during the interval portion of HIIT, muscle glycogen utilization and carbohydrate metabolism predominates. Again, you need to think outside the box and realize that it’s not just about the kcals you burn during exercise. This brings me to my next point.
People drastically underestimate how taxing HIIT (or the Cardio from Hell as Bulldog put it) can be on energy stores and the neural system, particularly the former. You have to appreciate that high-intensity energy system work is extremely taxing on the muscle’s carbohydrate stores. No joke. You can seriously deplete muscle glycogen with 15-30 minutes of intense interval training. You want references? I got 'em
Trish…Again, beautiful points:-) HIIT does kick ass and it does kick my ass. But great things don’t come easy. Heck, I don’t mind if I’m the only one at the track or in the gym doing my intervals; that’s just another example of what sets each of us apart from the rest.
Timbo,
I guess I don’t understand the use of the term “interval”, because what you explained is exactly what I was trying to explain.
If you’re doing interval training, you’re doing a period of very high intensity, followed by a period of moderate intensity, repeatedly high-moderate-high-moderate, right? Now if you call the “interval” just the high intensity part, then, yeah, I agree we’re talking different things because our definitions are different.
In any case, a period of high intensity exercise puts the body in a state for maximum fatty acid metabolism, and it stays there for a while even at lower exercise levels.
But what’s the biochemical basis of the body’s behavior when this happens? I really want to know.
Yorik,
Yes, when I refer to the interval portion of the HIIT protocol, it is the period of maximal intensity work. Following the interval is a period of active recovery, which ranges from complete rest to moderate activty (pending on one’s condition).
That being said, a period of high intensity (i.e. >80% VO2max) does not put the body in a state of maximal fatty acid metabolism (whatever that means!). With increasing exercise intensity, the body begins to really more heavily on glycolysis and glycogenolysis (i.e. carbohydrate metabolism). The glycolytic flux as a result of increasing intensity may in and of itself be an inhibitor of lipolysis (i.e. carnitine palmitate transferase). In addition, fatty acids (from either adipose tissue or intramuscular triglycerides) can only provide about 7 kcal/min, maximally. Therefore, that’s not nearly enough for the maintenance of high intensity training.
In addition, at high intensities, it’s likely that blood flow to adipose tissue is a limiting factor in providing fatty acids into the blood stream for oxidation in the muscle’s mitochondria. More cardiac output is redirected towards active tissue (i.e. contracting muscle), so less is available to adipose tissue. Since fatty acids broken down from the adipose tissue require the protein albumin to carry them in the bloodstream, this is obviously a limiting factor.
Interestingly, upon cessation of high intensity activity, there is a drastic increase in the concentration of plasma fatty acids. This further supports that lipolysis is not the limiting factor, but more likely that inadequate blood flow is.
So, yorik, you need to understand that fatty acid oxidation during exercise is not the primary reason why interval training is a more potent stimulus for fat loss.
The greater caloric expenditure, excess post-exercise oxygen consumption (EPOC), and elevated resting metabolic rate all contribute to its potentcy. The EPOC includes many contributors that can all be expanded upon.
God damn uni sux shit. how many kines/sportSci/Exphys majors are out there that dont know shit?
Not taking a stab at anyone, more so the money grabbing fucking uni’s cunts bastard FUCK! biggest watse of time in my life, ok that i lie but still they piss me off. if they want mega bucks they should give mega service/kowlegde/etc oohhhh
Right thats off my chest! Carry on…