Intermittent Fasting - Thoughts?

Well, let’s not get dogmatic about it. The “low blood sugar” thing is real for at least some people – I had a friend who would literally faint if she didn’t have a bag of M&M’s every three hours. One time she forgot her candy and she fainted.

For me, at least, I’m a very hungry person in general. It might be psychology (if I have three meals a day, that’s at least three times a day I’m happy!) I am the hungriest person I know. I wouldn’t mind if that went away over time.

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Well, let’s not get dogmatic about it. The “low blood sugar” thing is real for at least some people – I had a friend who would literally faint if she didn’t have a bag of M&M’s every three hours. One time she forgot her candy and she fainted.

For me, at least, I’m a very hungry person in general. It might be psychology (if I have three meals a day, that’s at least three times a day I’m happy!) I am the hungriest person I know. I wouldn’t mind if that went away over time.[/quote]

Oh, I’m not saying some people don’t have legitimate issues with blood sugar. My girlfriend is one of them. It’s more of a question of the chicken vs. the egg. Does she have blood glucose issues that cause her to need to eat a bag of m&m’s every 3 hours or does she have blood glucose issues because she eats a bag of m&m’s every 3 hours? Obviously, this is overly simplistic, but you get my point.

Interestingly enough, IF has been profoundly beneficial for my girlfriend’s blood sugar issues along with learning to compose her meals in such a way that doesn’t lend itself to rapid spikes in insulin. Size and composition are both relevant to this. What we found, and the research supports this, is that the standard frequent feedings actually lends itself to the rapid fluctuations in blood sugar that give people with reactive hypoglycemia problems whereas IF improves blood glucose stability.

I looked at Martin Berkhan’s “client results” and there are a few women who seem to have done all right. I’ll see what happens in four weeks or so.

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do, but I just wanted to point out that whatever you have done up to this point, you’re doing very well. You look great!

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
IF makes the rounds every 10 years or so. It ‘kicks up some dust’ and gets a fan base of mostly fitness/recreational lifters that have been unsuccesful at getting bigger and stronger. It is ‘radical’ enough to get people to think they are doing something special or difficult. Soon after starting IF, they begin to say things like “I really do not want to be a big bodybuilder or strong powerlifter” followed by a 10K race registration. The best of this group transistion into becoming runners, the others just stop working out. The malnourished look in never pretty![/quote]

This is comical at best and ignorant at worst. If I eat over maintenance calories, but I choose to do it in an 8-hour window, am I malnourished?

i posted earlier but it didnt get put up . you could fast all day then after work train with 10g bcaa 15/30 mins before training then go home and have your evening/pwo meal .

The only thing I worry about is that it just won’t work – either because I’ll get so hungry I can’t keep it up, or because I’ll do everything right and my body won’t cooperate. I’ve had the same squish around my ass and thighs forever (see picture) and it seems to like being there. I have had periods when I counted calories and ate very little and it didn’t do much about it. Maybe there are some actual physiological properties about intermittent fasting that make this different. I hope so – I would really like this to be the thing that works.

This is what I want to look like. (Not sure what it would take to get there – apart from very dramatic lighting.)

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
This is what I want to look like. (Not sure what it would take to get there – apart from very dramatic lighting.)[/quote]

Curious to how you train. You said that you do weights + cardio. Is this the same session, is it every time? What strength exercises and what kind of cardio do you do?

Well, for most of this fall and winter I haven’t been regular enough with my workout schedule, which is part of my problem. Grad school + disorganization = missed workouts. So right now my main goal is to get some consistency. I was at my strongest last March (squat/bench/deadlift maxes were 185/125/255) but I kind of let “life” get in the way in the intervening months.

But generally, I split it into upper and lower body days, two of each. Upper body: bench, overhead press, various accessories (e.g. rows, pullups, arm stuff.) Lower body: squats, deadlifts or RDL’s, various accessories (e.g. hypers, glute machine, leg press). I generally work up to a max on the main lifts. Then I follow with a few timed sprints. Sometimes I go for a longer outdoor run, 6-12 miles, but that’s more for fun; I’m not doing serious cardio on a daily basis. I have a log in Powerful Women if you’re curious.

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
The only thing I worry about is that it just won’t work – either because I’ll get so hungry I can’t keep it up, or because I’ll do everything right and my body won’t cooperate. I’ve had the same squish around my ass and thighs forever (see picture) and it seems to like being there. I have had periods when I counted calories and ate very little and it didn’t do much about it. Maybe there are some actual physiological properties about intermittent fasting that make this different. I hope so – I would really like this to be the thing that works.

[/quote]

imo from all your own photos youre not that far off from the picture of how you waant to be . try if’ing 14 hour fasting n 10 hour eating window . let diet take care of fat loss and concentrate on weights for exercise to keep muscle/strength (you want the muscle to have a nice shape when youre slimmer) and walk every day for about 30 mins for your cardio .
when i switched to if’ing from 5/6 meals a day the constant hunger went almost over night and i still keep advanceing with weights the same as i did with 5/6 meals a day .
to start with set cals at 12 x body weight ,set protein at 1.5g per lb of lbm , set fat at 30% of total daily cals and the rest from carbs with 75% of those carbs directly pwo the other 25% spread out over the rest of your feeding period .

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
IF makes the rounds every 10 years or so. It ‘kicks up some dust’ and gets a fan base of mostly fitness/recreational lifters that have been unsuccesful at getting bigger and stronger. It is ‘radical’ enough to get people to think they are doing something special or difficult. Soon after starting IF, they begin to say things like “I really do not want to be a big bodybuilder or strong powerlifter” followed by a 10K race registration. The best of this group transistion into becoming runners, the others just stop working out. The malnourished look in never pretty!!
[/quote]

Far from reality. Proportionally, just as many recreational/fitness types get on board with the 6-8 meals/day and fizzle out. Your argument has zero relevance to the validity of IF.

Michael Keck and Marc Bartley, both sponsored by EFS and bigger and stronger than 99.9% of the people on this website follow the Warrior Diet. Obviously, neither of them are really into being big and strong anymore.

If you look at Martin Berkhan’s website, there are top european natural bodybuilders using the leangains approach with huge amounts of success, maintaining seriously low levels of bodyfat year round and carrying as much, if not more, muscle as this site’s resident pro natural bodybuilder, Stu.

Personally, I have been slowly dropping bodyfat and kicking untold amounts of ass in the gym using loosely applied leangains principles. I usually eat two meals per day, both in the afternoon and evening. I eat what I want for the most part and don’t worry about going over 400 calories per meal like someone carrying a cooler around with them and eating like a bird all day long. Mentally, it’s far easier and allows me to be far more flexible since I’m not tied down to eating x amount of whatever food every 3 hours. This translates to increased productivity and decreased stress in the rest of my life, without sacrificing progress in the gym.

In the end, the amount and macronutrient composition of food is infinitely more important than HOW you eat it.

Alisa, definitely check out Martin’s stuff. I think his is the best application of intermittent fasting to individuals that are seriously interested in weight training and boyd composition.[/quote]

x2. Good post.

I am also following this approach as I diet down right now, although I have made one modification: the two days per week I train in the morning, I adjust my window to allow intra- and post-WO food intake. That time is just too critial to go through without getting in some kcals for one trying to maintain as much LBM as possible, IMO. I understand Berkhan’s argument, but I feel the evidence is weak and really I simply disagree.

Hunger hasn’t been too bad an issue for me. I tend to be hungrier at night anyway, so not eating until 4 PM generally isn’t THAT bad. Drink water, as SH said, and chew calorie-free gum. Both help a lot.

more notes:

  1. The joy of back-of-the-envelope calculations. If I’m about 20% body fat now (I had it checked last year and I haven’t changed much since then) I’d only have to lose 8 pounds to be a more reasonable 15%. If I can’t lose 8 stinking pounds on a massive deficit and plenty of exercise, then something’s wrong.

  2. I am actually way more wakeful than I used to be. I’m getting up crazy early and not napping throughout the day. If this is a real trend, I think I’ll like it – I’ve had a problem with fatigue for years.

Alisa,

I’m going to suggest that your goal isn’t to be reasonably fit and pretty - you’re already there. You have a feminine, athletic build with nice proportions and beautiful skin. I say that not in any kind of lesbian-love way! Given a spray tan and some posing, you’re already close to the “ideal” pic you posted IMO.

So, your real goal is maybe to cut to 15% body fat and see if that takes care of the “squish at the hip and thigh”, and to try to bubble up your glutes and hammies?

I’ve been tracking my body comp for several years now. I’ve got a good friend who’s been into body building for a long time and she’s been willing to pinch me. We keep all the data in a spreadsheet. I’ve been able to see how even some small tweaks in my nutrition or training were working. For example, just adding some fruit before my workouts has helped me keep on more muscle. I used to get up and run on an empty stomach. I was really stubborn about change since I’d been doing it forever, but I couldn’t argue with the data.

I mention this because just finding a site in your trouble area - like taking a pinch at your thigh with some cheap calipers - will be really useful in telling you if what you are doing is getting you to your goal. I dropped from 20% body fat as a runner to 15-16% after I started lifting. My thigh is also my main trouble spot. At 15% I still have a bit more fat there than I’d like. It’s a trade-off. Last summer I decided to see what would happen if I got even leaner. I dropped another 6 pounds (I’m 5"2" and weigh 112. I wanted to see what 106 looked like). I lost my boobs and got very lean in my upper body, with striations across my upper pecs, while STILL holding onto some fat at my thigh! Maddening! Also, if I go lower than 15%, I loose my period. My husband likes me better with some of the soft curves. The goal of “pretty” is subjective, right? Since I do want him to find me attractive, that leaves me with working on bubbling up my glutes and hammies.

Anyway, maybe consider getting some cheap calipers so you can see if the experiment in IF is actually getting you to your goal. It will show subtle changes week to week that you can’t see as well in pictures. Oh, you always have to pinch in the same spot. I have a freckle on my inner-thigh so I use that.

Let us know how you do with the IF.

Best,
Puff

Thanks for your encouragement, and yeah, I can look into calipers. (I think they have them on Amazon.)

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
The only thing I worry about is that it just won’t work – either because I’ll get so hungry I can’t keep it up, or because I’ll do everything right and my body won’t cooperate. I’ve had the same squish around my ass and thighs forever (see picture) and it seems to like being there. I have had periods when I counted calories and ate very little and it didn’t do much about it. Maybe there are some actual physiological properties about intermittent fasting that make this different. I hope so – I would really like this to be the thing that works.

[/quote]

To be frank, you look very attractive to me on that pic. The model you posted while very attractive also has dieted down alot i would imagine, its not a permanent look.

If you lose much more then 20lbs i’d imagine you would start to lose your nice curves.

Mind you this is from a guy that weighs 275lbs at or around %25 fat :slight_smile:

I do intermittent fasting I’m 6’3" 250 lbs. I find it very sustainable. I feel great during the day and I’ve been getting stronger. I rarely ever eat breakfast. I will eat a salad at lunch with chicken in it if I feel the need. Then I have a 2 hour window at night where i eat. I usually don’t need all two hours I fill up pretty easily. Usually about 1 lb of meat and some vegetables at night. Finish with a handful of walnuts. On days I workout I find i recover better if i have a lunch with some carbs like rice or fruit. I’ll have a surge recovery after I work out, but overall i feel great and i’ve been performing great. I know people around here are against working out fasted but i feel great doing when it. I have a lot of excess bodyfat right now though so when i slim down i will probably have to adjust my habits, but this has been a great way for me to start my dieting again.

No, you’re right, it’s not realistic to try to look like models in photo shoots, but I couldn’t find a good picture of a “real” woman’s butt just then. I have seen people in real life who look the way I want to look; usually college athletes. (Yes, I used to ogle the lacrosse girls.) There are people who are healthy and can perform athletically and have visibly fit physiques. I’m not going for the model/figure thing – I just don’t get the appeal of dieting down for a single event. I want to be SUSTAINABLY awesome. Very likely that means I won’t lose twenty pounds.

I’m a hedonist. I’m not gonna deny it. I try not to go too crazy with it, but I really like being happy and experiencing pleasure. And I feel WAY more pleasure when I feel like I’m progressing towards a stronger, hotter body. Even small, incremental progress. I don’t care if it’s a little silly and unserious, it’s one of life’s few turn-ons and I am going to enjoy it. Being a lardass is a drag. It makes me feel… dowdy, forgettable, boxed away out of sight, sexless. Screw that. I’m going to take pleasure when it comes my way.

Wtf, the dude looks like something out of the holcaust.

Why would someone on a site dedicated to building slabs of muscle want to emulate that kind of body?

[quote]Oregand wrote:
Wtf, the dude looks like something out of the holcaust.

Why would someone on a site dedicated to building slabs of muscle want to emulate that kind of body?[/quote]

I’m guessing you didn’t read the rest of the thread.