T Nation

Intermediate Program


#1

Hi guys. I've almost done with stronglifts and am looking into programs to move onto.
The goal is strength. Current stats;

6'1 193lbs (working up to 200)
Squat 110kg
Deadlift 160kg
Bench 75kg
Press 60kg
Rows 80kg

I've been looking at Texas method, madcow and 5/3/1.
Texas method makes a lot of sense to me in how it's laid out and I'm probably leaning towards that. Just wondering if anyone had any major advantage to point out for madcow or 5/3/1?


#2

Go for the program whose philosophy you believe in most.

The difference in results you’ll get from these three programs is largely down to understanding and dedication rather than any quirk of program design.


#3

just do 5/3/1


#4

[quote]Yogi wrote:
just do 5/3/1[/quote]
It’s the answer for everything now.

Actually, why did you recommend the original book over the later iterations?


#5

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
just do 5/3/1[/quote]
It’s the answer for everything now.

Actually, why did you recommend the original book over the later iterations?[/quote]

TBH I take ‘5/3/1’ to refer to the system, so including all iterations. It is a great program.

OP, they’re all good. I’d say either 5/3/1 or Texas are better just for strength.

There are lots of good programs out there. The 5/3/1 system is one of the best. Texas has a reputation of being hard to recover from.


#6

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
just do 5/3/1[/quote]
It’s the answer for everything now.

Actually, why did you recommend the original book over the later iterations?[/quote]

Pretty much!

I think the original form was perfect, and all the added shit now just overcomplicates it


#7

Texas Method is pretty much just Stronglifts (sets across) just using different weights.

Madcow is Stronglifts with some ramped sets, instead of sets across.

All 3 have simlar structures, (full body, lifts stressed equally, sets of 5 reps, little to no assistance). With Madcow or Texas Method, you may gain some muscle, and lift more weight, but you will still be a beginner. You won’t learn anything. You’ll know the same 5 lifts, for the same sets of 5, and the same stalls. 6 weeks from now, you’ll be right back where you are today.

5/3/1 will introduce you to a whole new structure(upper/lower), more variety in the weights and number of reps you lift, and some assistance work. In addition to just doing the 5/3/1 sessions, and moving weights you’ll LEARN about planning your training over weeks and months. You’ll learn how assistance exercises help build main lifts. You’ll learn how to use sets across to build up volume. And how use this work to “set up” for ramps in intensity. There are suggestions and guidelines for implementing conditioning, and extra work for recovery and mobility/agility.

In the future, when you stall or get bored, there is a clean path to continue on with 5/3/1. There are many templates, to stress new techniques and concepts (high rep squatting, rest pause, higher volume on main lifts, etc). You won’t have to guess what weights to lift, or experiment with how many days to lift or rest. You can just follow the plan.

After a few months, even if you don’t like anything about 5/3/1, at least you will have done some stuff other than grinding away with sets of 5 in the squat. You’ll be more educated.


#8

[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
Texas Method is pretty much just Stronglifts (sets across) just using different weights.[/quote] No, not quite.

[quote]Madcow is Stronglifts with some ramped sets, instead of sets across.[/quote] Again, no, not quite.

[quote]All 3 have simlar structures, (full body, lifts stressed equally, sets of 5 reps, little to no assistance). With Madcow or Texas Method, you may gain some muscle, and lift more weight, but you will still be a beginner. You won’t learn anything. You’ll know the same 5 lifts, for the same sets of 5, and the same stalls. 6 weeks from now, you’ll be right back where you are today.[/quote] This time, just no. The fact that you didn’t learn anything, does not make it so. Anecdotal evidence of one, is just that, not fact. Have you actually done the programs for ore then 6 months?

[quote]5/3/1 will introduce you to a whole new structure(upper/lower), more variety in the weights and number of reps you lift, and some assistance work. In addition to just doing the 5/3/1 sessions, and moving weights you’ll LEARN about planning your training over weeks and months. You’ll learn how assistance exercises help build main lifts. You’ll learn how to use sets across to build up volume. And how use this work to “set up” for ramps in intensity. There are suggestions and guidelines for implementing conditioning, and extra work for recovery and mobility/agility.

In the future, when you stall or get bored, there is a clean path to continue on with 5/3/1. There are many templates, to stress new techniques and concepts (high rep squatting, rest pause, higher volume on main lifts, etc). You won’t have to guess what weights to lift, or experiment with how many days to lift or rest. You can just follow the plan.

After a few months, even if you don’t like anything about 5/3/1, at least you will have done some stuff other than grinding away with sets of 5 in the squat. You’ll be more educated. [/quote]I happen to love the principles of 5/3/1, so no arguments.

But to say that you will learn nothing from the other programs is just plain false.


#9

BRO! How are you gonna be an “intermediate lifter” if you’ve never touched a dumbbell?


#10

[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
BRO! How are you gonna be an “intermediate lifter” if you’ve never touched a dumbbell?
[/quote]

Not sure if serious…

If you want to defend your position, defend it, in an intelligent matter. Right now, you are saying that to move to intermediate levels you must utilize dumbells? Or, you are trying to sound smart?

Just so you know, subtleties don’t work very well in internet forums.


#11

Full body routines taught me

-the value of standing on your feet to build strength.
-the effectiveness of working the same"movements" or “patterns” often.
-the way the body really moves as one “unit” everywhere but in the gym, on a split routine.

The h/l/m, 5x5 rep scheme taught me
-to “pace myself” to get through all my sets
-to “get tight” and find my optimal position and technique to drive through lifts as I got tired
-to use light weight squats to recover from heavy squats

In my opinion, the Texas Method will re-enforce, or re-teach the same principles or ideas that Stronglifts (or any similar routine) already laid down. To learn new things, you’ve got to try new things.

“Like the scholar who must utilise many sources of information to achieve a higher level of knowledge, the lifter must incorporate new and more difficult exercises to raise their standards.”
-Louie Simmons

5/3/1 is set up a lot differently, so you can’t help but learn something new.

Also, if you go hard on full body, barbell lifts it can be useful, or “healthy” to take a break and get down on some uni-lateral or dumbbell lifts for awhile. Make sure you’re still “square,” then get back to blasting stuff off the ground.