T Nation

Intermediate Cycle Advice: Only Test?

Hi all, I am fairly new to these forums but was looking for some advice/input for my first cycle. I am hoping you can provide me with some information + feedback regarding the structure of my cycle.

Stats:
6’
215lbs
16-17% BF
22 yo

I have been lifting for the last 5 years (since 17) and lost 40lbs naturally by 19; however, due to personal reasons, I put a lot of that weight back on. On a side note, I think I may have developed mild gyno during puberty. With that said, I believe I have a relatively good workout routine and diet. I’m in the gym 6 days a week and try running 3-5 times a week. I use MyFitnessPal to track my diet which typically consists of…
200g Protein
75g Carbs
<50g Fats

I would like to shred down to 190lbs by summer 2021 (or earlier); however, this time I’d like to try a cycle. After browsing through the forum, with many people suggesting a test only beginners cycle, I am considering the following:

10-week cycle
Week 1-9
Test E: 500mg/w --> Monday / Thursday
HCG: 500IU/w --> Monday / Thursday
Letrozole: 0.5mg/EOD

Week 10-11
Test P: 300mg/w --> Monday / Wednesday / Friday
HCG: 250IU/w --> Monday / Wednesday
Letrozole: 0.5mg/EOD

Week 12
Test P: 200mg/w --> Monday / Wednesday
Letrozole: 0.5mg --> Tuesday / Thursday

PCT 10 days after week 12:
300mg Clomid first day
30mg ED for 30 days
100mg Nolva first day
30mg ED for 30 days

I am also considering supplementing Vitamin E and Zinc or using Finasteride to deal with any possibility of balding. Would you recommend any other supplementation? Anyways, this is my cycle, please make any changes, additions, and comments!

why do you want to do a cycle ? you are young and your BF is a bit high

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ideally, I am looking to cut back down to 190. Lean muscle growth would be a nice benefit as well.

but your at 16% Bf maybe more right now, why would it change on gear or after your cycle ? your lifestyle actually suck

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I don’t know about taking 500mg test weekly just to cut weight. If you wanted to put on some size, then cut, it would make more sense

Instead of this, just do:

HCG 500iu EOD for 3 weeks after last test shot.

3 weeks after last test shot: Nolva 40/40/20/20/20 (dose is daily, for one week).

But this is for later, after you assess the reason for your cycle

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and what is MILD GINO ?

Hey swoops39, thank you for your reply. First off, nice car!

I’ll definitely take that into consideration. Would you recommend introducing another compound to help with a cut? Everyone says to stay away from tren and I don’t think var or clen will have a noticeable effect on my physique at my current bf%

since it appears that you enjoy trolling posts according to your recent activity and replies on your profile, I will no longer be responding to you.

Gyno, gynecomastia…

trolling Post ? Because i told you that you are too fat and too young for a cycle ? are you fucking kidding me

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Working out 6 days a week + 3 to 5 run maybe there is not gino in that, you just fucking abuse

Thank you, it’s my latest project.

As for the Var, it’s better than most give it credit for.

If it were me and I wanted to lean up, recomp, while putting on a little muscle I’d do a lower dose of test with 25-50mg of Var daily.

If I wanted to get big, I’d do the 500mg test.

Just depends what you want out of it

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So you are eating less than 1600 kcals per day consistently and you are not losing weight fast enough with 6 workouts per week and 3 times running. Something is wrong here. Your metabolism is either crap or you are not doing what you say you are. Either way it leads me to believe:

In my opinion, a cycle to lose weight is in your case a bad idea. You don’t need a test cycle to reach your goals and you will be disappointed with the results, since you are eating not close enough to profiting from it. Don’t do it, seriously.

My advice for damage minimization if you still do it would be:

Letrozole and other AIs should only be used when needed. That means that if both of these are true you take it:

  1. You got symptons: mood, gyno, etc.
  2. Your bloods show that E2 is high.

Oftentimes people don’t need an AI on 500 Test only.

This is a good idea in my opinion, I’d do it. It prevents a possible primary failure (testicles) after cycle better than not using it.

I’d do it like that:
Take Test P and hCG through week 12 and 13 and start PCT at week 14 (day 98). Letrozole ONLY WHEN NEEDED.

Start PCT week 14 (3 weeks after last Test E shot) and take only Nolva for 6 weeks going
40 mg first week, 40 second, then 20 mg, then 20, then two weeks 10 mg per day.

I wanna emphasize that I think you doing a cycle in that situation, to cut and with your current level is a really bad idea. You will hurt yourself without much I gain from it.

I laid out how you should do it if you still decide to do it, but I hope you are not and you are coming back when you are ready. Until then we are here to help you figure out what to do to get ready.

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Nope nope nope. You are 20+ percent still. Yes you have gyno and loose skin from weight loss. A cycle is a very bad idea at your age and current fitness level. You need to continue firming up and learning your body until you have a better platform to cycle. Preferably a bit older too.

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dont tell him that kind of thing you will be call a ‘‘troll’’

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I also think 16% is a big stretch. Even with the skin factored in.

As I said, OP your current state doesn’t check the requirements to cycle.

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Thank you everyone for your comments, especially @lordgains. I have a scale that measures my bf% along with a number of many other metrics which is how I came to the conclusion that I was 16%.

Regardless, I will work on getting down to the 10-15% range by the end of February 2021. I will be reconsidering the use of any anabolics for now; however, I will be back in March with more pictures + questions and may reevaluate the use of anabolics.

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Those scales suck and you’d be better off comparing yourself to pictures on the internet. You’re definitely well over 20% IMHO.

At 22 your natural testosterone level should be about as high as its ever going to get; you should definitely wait and try to maximize the potential you have now before injecting unknowns into your body.

According to your posted macros you’re consuming only 1,550 calories, you weigh 215 lbs, workout 6 days a week and run 3-5 times a week. Weight should be dropping rapidly, maybe even too rapidly. Either you have a serious medical problem, or you’re not very accurate with measuring your food. I would be dollars to doughnuts it’s the latter.

As far as pubertal gynocomastia: I had the same issue. I had it surgically removed at 22 (37 now) and it was one of the best decisions of my life. If you can feel hard lumps between your skin/fat and your pectoral muscles you may want to find a cosmetic surgeon. I know of no medication that will take this away.

Regarding your cycle:

500mg/week of long ester (e or c) test is typically considered the way to go. I wouldn’t bother switching to prop; run the long ester for as long as you want the cycle to go and then 2 or 3 weeks after your last shot start taking 40mg of Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) a day for two weeks, then 20mg a day for two more weeks; ditch the clomid.
HCG is great, 500iu/week is good. But adding a second compound to a first cycle is maybe not the best idea since you want to know how the test will affect you on its own first. You could try doing the HCG as a bridge, with higher dosages, between the last shot of test and the PCT.

Are you predisposed to make pattern baldness? If not, then don’t worry about it.

Doing a cycle to cut seems like a waste to me, unless you’re getting ready for a contest and need to preserve as much muscle as possible while under extreme conditions.

You’re an adult, so do as you want; just be aware that once you start, you probably won’t stop and you may be forced (or choose) to inject for the rest of your life.

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Good decision on your part. You won’t regret it.

I think it’s important when you start a cycle eventually, that your metabolism is in check.
You should be able to eat 2600-3300 kcal without gaining or losing weight (my estimation of maintenance, could be higher with all the workouts). If it’s lower than that, you got a problem that you first need to fix, maybe with reverse dieting.

This is also absolutely true and a good point. Now you have the opportunity to find out what exactly works. You work out for 3 years now, that’s short. It would be intelligent to wait at least til 25 for your first cycle, since it just isn’t necessary to shoot exogenous T when your body produces a good amount itself. If you wait longer you also know if you stick to the gym and if you’re serious enough to go down the route of AAS. It was said earlier, but for many people this is a game that leads to a lifetime of injections. Many people don’t recover, we see it here every week, and then the only options are months of suffering with finding alternative options or going to TRT (testosterone replacement), where you inject at least 2 times per week for the rest of your life.

When you are ready for the use of AAS, I would really recommend to take a look at the downsides, consequences and side effects acute and long term. You can make your own decisions but it should be an informed one if you take that risk.

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@lordgains @Veteq Thank you guys. Seriously, I really appreciate your honest opinions. It is making me want to work even harder, make sure my diet is in check, etc.

Regarding T-levels, I’m sure you guys are relatively familiar with how they work. I did get a blood test the other week because I was concerned with other issues, primarily sexual function… and here are my results.

My T levels are at 17.6 which is less than the average I should be at: 18.6 nmol/L ((28.8+8.4)/2). My thyroid levels are also relatively weak as well.

Should I be concerned? On a side note, do you think my current bf%/test/thyroid levels are a reason I may be having issues?