T Nation

Interesting T Increase, Need to Know Why

#1

Hi.

I would be very happy to hear an opinion about this:

I’ve struggled for 2 years with low-normal T, low-normal LH and slightly elevated prolactin. I have ALL the symptoms of low T mentioned in the TOT bible of Jay Campbell although I assume other thing except T may play in these symptoms. Slight deformation of the pituitary seen on NMRi but no any tomors/adenomas:

These are my blood results obtained end of March this year:

TSH S 1.73 µIU/ml 0.27 - 4.20 ECLIA
LH S 2.65 IU/L 1.70 - 8.60 ECLIA
FSH S 1.13 IU/L 1.5 - 12.40 ECLIA
Prolactin S 352.6 mIU/L 84.80 - 318 ECLIA
Estradiol S 16.04 ng/L 7.63 - 42.60 ECLIA
Testosterone S 14.14 nmol/l 9.90 - 27.80 ECLIA
Free Testosteron S 9.1 ng/l 8.30 - 40.10 RIA
DHEA-s S 8.63 µmol/l 4.34 - 12.20 ECLIA
SHBG S 32.09 nmol/l 18.30 - 54.10 ECLIA
Cortisol (morning) S 303.1 nmol/l 133 - 537 ECLIA
Total Cholesterol (Chol.) S 3.91 mmol/l 3.5 - 5.20 PHOT
HDL-Холестерол (HDL-C) S 1.31 mmol/l > 1.5 PHOT
LDL-Холестерол (LDL-C) S 2.59 mmol/l 0 - 3.35 PHOT
Trigleceridi (Tg) S 0.51 mmol/l 0 - 1.70 PHOT
Glucose S 5.19 mmol/l 2.80 - 6.10 HK
IGF-1 (Somatomedin C ) S* 191 ug/L 98 - 282 CLIA
25-OH-Vitamin D S 41.35 ng/ml > 30 ECLIA

23.04.2019 I made a consultation with Defy and they recommender me start taking caber 2 times a week 0.125mg and clomid 12.5mg EOD. I start the next day. Clomid made me feel very crappy and on 07.05 I took blood tests that showed slightly elevated T with me NOT FEELING ANY BETTER even worse and stopped it. These are the results(I tested only a few things):

Prolactin S 283.5 mIU/L 84.80 - 318 ECLIA
Estradiol S 21.92 ng/L 7.63 - 42.60 ECLIA
Testosterone S 18.15 nmol/l 9.90 - 27.80 ECLIA

I’ve made blood tests today and my T has continued to rise a little bit, the prolactin not dropped further since 07.05 while I continue to take the dose of caber:

Free T3 (fT3) S 2.88 ng/l 2 - 4.40 ECLIA
LH S 3.09 IU/L 1.70 - 8.60 ECLIA
Prolactin S 288.9 mIU/L 84.80 - 318 ECLIA
Testosterone S 21.25 nmol/l 9.90 - 27.80 ECLIA

For the last month I’ve started to take resveratrol, Vit-C, Vit B complex, DIM, and Tribulus but maybe only for 10-15 days I stopped it because I was not feeling well from it. I also started new diet 3 weeks ago(removed all sugar, gluten, processed foods, almost all carbs, Im eating only sweet potatoes and brown rice up to 2 times a week, much more fat and protein, stopped also all diary) and started a new werght lifting program 3 times a week whole body work but not too heavy all with the purpose to cut weight.

My question is why is the increase of test for the last month from 18 to 21 when I expected a decline due to stopping the clomid? Is this test increase still a consequence of the clomid use and to be expected dropdown? I know it can be fluctuation but why it didn’t drop when I stopped the clomid? Is the high value today still due to the clomid?

My symptoms have not improved still. Does it take time when T is elevated to experience symptoms improvement or I need to raise it more to feel better? I know the last two tests are very inconclusive, tomorrow I will test SHBG, Free Test and estradiol. Any other hormone/marker to get a cleared picture?

#2

The testosterone increase is not clinically significant. I’m surprised they started you as they did. Your pituitary is not going to work well. Clomid likely did nothing. They did know of your MRI result? I think you should have started with testosterone. You may need thyroid supplementation as well. Good luck.

1 Like
#3

Why do I need thyroid supplementation?

Also do you think somebody will start me on T when my current level now is more than 600? Even I’m not totally convinced I need it.

#4

“May” need thyroid. Free T3 of 2.88. Symptoms and reverse T3 would help.

Somebody would. Free testosterone and symptoms would dictate course.

Symptoms over ride lab numbers.

#5

What is an optimal T3 value? I guess I can work on the T4 to T3 conversion, I know problems there are most likely caused by inflamation.
3 weeks ago I removed all potentially inflamatory foods from my diet.

Im not sure I can make reverse T3 in my country.

#6

Over 4.0, but if you are fine at 2.88, I’d leave it.

Good plan.

#7

You are fixating on a hormone that is not bioavailable, Free T is the bioavailable hormone. TRT cannot work when there are thyroids problems ~ low Free T3.

#8

Prolactin inhibits dopamine production. Have you any idea why the prolactin was, ans really still is, so high? You may not react well to caber. More probably the Clomid doesn’t agree with you and it has a very long half-life. You might be stuck waiting for it to leave your system.

#9

Provided I have stopped clomid more than a month ago and I took it 5-6 times 12.5mg… I don’t know seems it should be out. Also the local endo told me so, not that he is an expert…

And why caber you see does not react well with me? It seems I need to up the dosage a little bit it is super low now.

#10

Clomid can take up to 6 weeks to be out of your system, and many people do not tolerate it well.
Reaction to the caber is just a possibility. Anything can make a person feel bad, that is hard to predict.

#11

The bad feeling significantly decreased when I stopped clomid and almost completely disappeared a few days ago. Now the question is what had raised my T. To me seems to be the drop in prolactine and this is why I plan to increase the cabergoline so I can optimize prolactine more.

Tomorrow I will test free test, shbg, cortisol and reverse t3

#12

The Clomid stimulated your pituitary gland to produce more LH, which sometimes just wakes it up enough to function correctly.

#13

This could be nice so the clomid effect like remains? And what about the option that prolactine drop has increased t? By the way lh has increased very little from 2.65 to 3.09 which is also kind of odd

#14

Also I wonder whether I should worry about the thyroid

#15

The idea behind running Clomid is to make your system restart, or work more like it ought to. It usually doesn’t do that, but maybe you lucked out.

Empty Sella Syndrome
#16

I dont know still to me seems more likely the caber to have caused it thats why I plan to increase my dose a bit next week. Prolactin is still high although within range

#17

Have a bit new bloods and more waiting for results:

Estradiol S 21.45 ng/L 7,63 - 42,60 ECLIA
SHBG S nmol/l 18,30 - 54,10 ECLIA
Cortisol (сутрешен) S 480.9 nmol/l 133 - 537 ECLIA
Reverse T3 S pg/ml 90 - 215 RIA
Free Testosteron S ng/L 7 - 22,70 EIA

As a whole seems the stress hormones are a bit high and I’m really wondering what causes the high prolactine and the high cortisol. (NMR of the pituitary is made there is a slight herniation but no adenoms/tumor)