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Interesting Idea...

I’m currently doing Joel’s RR&D. Now, by my standards, it’s pretty low volume, so I found myself looking for ways to boost the effect. I came up with a weird idea:

I work out MWF. Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday could be sort of like a “pain-mirror” of the previous day… I would do exactly -one- 5-rep set of each exercise performed on the previous day, but use heavier weights.

For example, Monday, I did 5x5 squatting with 225lb. On my pain-mirror day, Tuesday, I did cardio, and squatted 245lb for 5 reps. I’m thinking this would help prime me for next monday’s squatting of 235lb for 5x5.

Is this a worthwhile idea, or sheer lunacy? Thanks for any comments.


I have never tried that specifically, but I have added in other things along with 5X5 for various reasons.

I cannot comment on this specifically, but here is my advice: give it a shot.

If no one else is replying, than perhaps no one has tried it. See how it works for you, and the next time this question comes up, the forum will have someone who knows the answer. Lets us know.

Good luck, and hope this helps.

I think that it could work, but you’ll have to keep a careful log to see. You can either postulate about the chances of it working, or actually do it and see if it works. Try it for three weeks, and closely monitor your sleep quality and appetite for over training. Your intuition might serve you right this time!

If you are squatting 245 x 5, then you need be be using a greater load for your 5x5 session; no reason you should only be doing 225.

You could use some sort of active recovery between your weight training sessions for the big movements, but I would use a much lighter weight, not a heavier one; say maybe 2-3 sets of 5 w/ your 10RM for one of the exercises contained in the previous workout that you would like to improve upon.

Thanks for the input.

You got it.

I just finished doing four weeks of 5X5, and was doing 4 exercises/session, 4x week: quads, upper body pushing-dominant, hams, upper body pulling, plus a “bonus” day on saturday where I would do 10X3 on a weak part than an abs circuit. Really good upper body strength, less so for lower body compared with limping (duh).

Hell, why not give it a shot they way Joel recommended. After you finish you should look into HST. I think the whole body 3x a week will fit in with your desire to hit your muscle more frequently. Just give 5x5 a good try and then change.


I’m tryin’ to figure out how a 20 set workout is considered low volume. That’s my upper limit! :slight_smile: Granted, I can see it on the ‘C’ day where 10 sets are wrist curls, but what about the ‘B’ day? Squats, Sumo Deads and DB Clean&Press in the same workout for 5x5? It’d die.

Ike, agree completely. I cannot even imagine doing anything right after “B” day. Perhaps the guy who started this thread is not using enough weights? Cannot really say what would happen if I went to do some “mirror” sets. It would mean that for example traps would get worked 4 days in a row, (deadlifts in B day, shrugs in C day, plus mirrors). I had troubles recovering even with complete rest days in between as RR&D program is rather tough on shoulders.

I don’t find squats and deads to be very exhausting. I’m used to squatting much more than 5 reps. I also started deading just recently so I’m only lifting about 185lb, compared to my 235lb squat. Deads still hit the lower back hard, though. The clean and press is pretty killer, but here again I don’t use my 5x max weight because I have to work on my technique.

If you don’t find squats and deads hard, then what IS hard? In all seriousness, 5x5 for 4 exercises in one session is sheer lunacy. 5x5 is a MAXIMAL STRENGTH program. One, maybe two exercises max.

I find day 3 hard…my forearms become so overworked, I can barely hold a pencil.

You can’t really load DLs and squats unless you have the form under control. Once you can focus on getting weights up rather than just keeping balance and good form, you should be able to load both DLs and squats so that they are no longer easy. For me, DL makes my legs and back really sore for the following day. But it took some time to get form correctly (Meltdown helped a lot, it has both squats and deadlifts done slowly).

Good idea. I squatted 245lb at 5,5,5,4,3 this wednesday. Thanks.

Expanding on the more volume idea, how would it be if every Tue, Thu, Sat, instead of doing strength training, I did hypertrophy training? I like the program so far and if this would work, I could stay on it indefinitely. Example:

Monday - RR&D 5x5 routine

Tuesday - 3x12 reps at a lighter weight

1)Bench-press, Dumbell

2)Curls, Dumbell, Seated at 45 degrees

3)Dumbell Flyes, Lying on back

This way, I would for example, beef up my chest and arms on Tuesday while still making them stronger on Monday. Since strength training would be taken care of on Monday, I could use relatively light weights on Tuesday without fear of losing strength yet still benefitting from hypertrophy. Best of both worlds, or just a plain bad idea?