Just so everyone knows this prophecy as stated above by the Jehovah’s Witnesses was made after 1914. The original Jehovah’s Witness Prophecy by the founder of the Jehovah’s Witness was that Christ would return in 1914 and the battle of Armogedden would happen in 1914. When this did not happen, and after the death of the founder of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the new leaders changed the prophecy to mean that Jesus would reign in Heaven in 1914.
The definition of prophecy from God means that it has to be 100% correct. If one item is incorrect then the prophet is not from God. We see in Deut 18:22
When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
This is nothing more than a warning to all that follow a false prophet.[/quote]
No your wrong D Jerusalem being trampled on by the nations until the appointed times mentioned at Luke 21:24 being fulfilled in 1914 was discerned in the late 1800 so they knew that 1914 would be a year of significance. I said in my post that the Bible students did not fully understand what this exactly meant and yes they did have it wrong at first. But that does not mean that the fulfillment of Jesus’ statement about Jerusalem being trampled on by the nations until the appointed times did not occur in 1914. Nor does it mean that Jesus did not become king in heaven in 1914.
Nice try D but never did we claim to be prophets or have been given anything through divine intervention such as a prophetic dream. Some pastors actually say that God or Jesus told them or took them to heaven or told them something through a dream so their listeners will believe or do something. Never did we claim that. So the scripture you quoted at Dueturomeny does not apply to us. When that warning was written there were prophets and were going to be many prophets that God used and was going to use to give instruction to his people. When these prophets spoke it was as if God was speaking so if what they said did not come true then one was able to know that they were not true spokesmen of God. We knew back then as we know now that God’s way of communicating with us is through the Bible and prophetic dreams stopped after the apostles died in the first century. So again no D we were not able to discern the significance of 1914 in a prophetic way.
We were able to discern the significance of 1914 through a sincere and careful search of the Bible about several existing prophecies mentioned in the Bible as to when they would be fulfilled. Again we never claimed to have been given anything that is not in the Bible. That’s why in my post I quote scriptures only and not a theological explanation without scripture.
We were wrong as to exactly what happened in 1914 but that does not mean nothing happened in 1914. What I mean is that if we were looking to 1914 and absolutely nothing happened in that year then we would have known that we were completely wrong. But since a worldwide event that never happened before did happened in 1914 we realized that we had to take a closer look at the Bible to see exactly what took place in 1914. Once we did that we were able to discern what I explained in my two post.
The reason why we were wrong initially is due to what I explained in my second post. Most Bibles translate the Greek word parousia as “coming” but as I explained in my second post a more accurate rendering is “presence.” If you can get your hands on an Interliner word-for-word Greek to English translation of the Bible you will see that parousia is translated as “presence” and not “coming.” Since most people associate Jesus’ coming or return as to when Armageddon would start we mistakenly thought that Jesus parousia which most bibles at the time translated as coming was when Armageddon would happen. But once we realized that Jesus’ parousia means presence which means arriving and remaining, we realized that his parousia and his heavenly kingship would be invisible to human eyes that’s why Jesus gave us signs to look for at Matthew 24 so we would know when this would occur. I explained from the Bible in my second post as to why Jesus’ parousia or presence which means arriving and remaining is going to be a number of years or period of time.
Any easy way to know what parousia means is by going to dictionary.com.
and then go to
I am not here to argue with you, but I will reiterate the false prophecy predicted by Charles Taze Russell.
In 1876, pastor Russell wrote an interesting article based upon one of the fundamental beliefs Society for the imminent coming of a terrestrial theocratic KINGDOM OF JEHOVAH. This article entitled; ‘Gentile Times: When do they End?’, appeared in the October 1876 issue of Bible Examiner. On page 27 of that issue, referring to the Gospel of Luke 21: 24, the founding president predicted that the “Seven Times will end in A.D. 1914”. However, the expected KINGDOM OF JEHOVAH did not come. None of the events concerning Jerusalem, mentioned in Luke 21: 24 (see the biblical text below) happen in the year 1914. The Society then concluded that the predicted year was to be a turning point in human history and not the end of the “Seven Times” (see details below). Two years later, pastor Russell died.
This is not the only time that the Jehovah’s Witnesses prophesied the second coming of Christ. There are many instinces where you all believed that the second coming would happen in a given year and were Wrong. Below is taken directly from your Watchtower.
IDENTIFYING THE “PROPHET” – “So does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?..This “prophet” was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian Witnesses…Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a ‘prophet’ of God. It is another thing to prove it,” (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197). (See Deut. 18:21.)
1897 “Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874,” (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).
1899 “…the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty’ (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced,” (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).
1916 “The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ’s Reign, began in 1873,” (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).
1918 “Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection,” (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).
1922 “The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914,” (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).
1923 “Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge,” (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
1925 “The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year,” (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).
1925 “It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work,” (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).
1926 “Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything,” (Watchtower, p. 232).
1931 “There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah’s faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time…and they also learned to quit fixing dates,” (Vindication, p. 338).
1941 “Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord’s provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon,” (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).
1968 “True, there have been those in times past who predicted an ‘end to the world’, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The ‘end’ did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God’s truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them,” (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).
1968 “Why are you looking forward to 1975?” (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494).
I took the above from the link.
M&M the truth really hurts doesn’t it? You might say that you all are still learning. I say how can you believe what you have been taught is correct if all of these false prophecies have come from your leaders. Turn to the truth that has been the same for 2000 years.[/quote]
D do you actually thing you’re telling me something new all of those books are avaiable to me and all Jehovah’s witnesses know about the mistakes when we were in our infancy as a religion. I just looked at the first Watchtower you listed about Identifying the Prophets and the paragraph is taken out of context. If you read the article in it’s entirety Jehovah’s Witnesses are not indentified as prophets.
Like I said before, we are not a perfect religion and yes we have made mistakes. There are plenty of examples in the Bible when individuals and the group God was calling his people made mistakes and had to have their thinking readjusted. For example, the apostles had misplaced expectations and thought the resurrected Jesus was going to restore the nation of Israel to its former glory when they asked him if he was restoring the kingdom to Israel. They asked this despite the fact that Jesus said his kingdom was no part of the world. Read John 21:21-23 and there you will see a huge mistake Peter made with regard to a statement Jesus made. Peter misunderstood this statement and he spread this false information among all of the brothers. So we understand and realize that we made mistakes and will probably continue to make mistakes.
Since we were and still are so eager for Armageddon to come in our infancy we did make mistakes about trying to set dates for Armageddon. The last date we did this with is 1925 since then we have not fixed a date for Armageddon. Since I’ve been born we are regularly reminded about the mistakes we’ve made in the past in regards to trying to fix a date for Armageddon and since I’ve been alive we have not fixed a date for Armageddon. Since we realized we are not perfect as a group learning from our mistakes refines us. For example, in our infancy back in the early 1900’s we did not regard God’s clear warning regarding idolatry and we used the cross in our worship. We reasoned like all other Christian religions that using a cross in our worship and praying to it brought us closer to God. But after closely examining the scriptures and seeing examples in the Bible such as when God punished the Israelites when they made the golden calf dispite the fact that they called the festival a festival to Jehovah. And seeing God’s clear commands to not even make let alone pray to anything other than God no matter what, we realized that this clearly ignored God’s law regarding idolatry so we stopped using the cross in any part of our worship and removed them from our buildings.
This is what you are not getting D. It is impossible to use the Bible to tell when Armageddon is going to start I know you know that. I know that and all Jehovah’s Witness know that. The Bible states that it will come like a thief in the night. Now this is the point. Being able to discern the signs that Jesus told his disciples to look for that would mark his presence and the conclusion of the system of things is not the same as saying we know when Armageddon is going to start. The fact that we made mistakes in trying to fix a date for Armageddon does not take away the fact that the signs Jesus told his disciples to look for at Matthew 24 started in 1914, intensified since that year and we’ve been able to identify them.
Albert Einstein obviously was a brilliant scientist. He is credited with the Theory of Relativity and the E=mc2 equation and this greatly helped mans understanding of space and time and led to other discoveries that has greatly helped man over the past 100 years. But Albert Einstein made the mistake of disregardeding Quantum Mechanics when most scientist believed QM was the wave of the future. Many feel that without QM the transistor would not have been invented and without the transistor I would not be typing on this forum. So Albert Einstein made a mistake when he disregarded QM. So because of his mistake would you say that all of his other scientific discoveries are false? Of course not you. Why? Because you can see the results of his other scientific discoveries. The same can be applied to the 1914 date. We can clearly see the signs that Jesus told us to look for that point to his kingship in heaven, his parousia or presence and the start of the last days beginning in 1914.[/quote]
At least you are willing to admit that, and that makes you at least a Humble person. The problem I personally have is that you all changed the prophecy out of being wrong, and not out of correction by God or Jehovah through the Holy Spirit. You all discount Jehovah or God, by not listening to him through the Holy Spirit or Active Force. Do you all try to listen to the Active Force when trying to discern the will of Jehovah?
What was Jesus doing for aproximately 1,914 years?
I will say that the signs of the End Days are more prominent today than they were say 500 years ago.
I still have not heard your response to the Hebrews passage. When did God tell an angel to sit at his right hand. You look at the first verses, but not this one particular verse. This will be the 4th or 5th time I have asked this question. How can Jesus be an angel and sit at the right hand of Jehovah, when Jehovah himself tells us that he has never asked an angel to sit at his right hand?