T Nation

Insulin Sensitivity

Just read “the anabolic power of insulin”. wondering if there are some experts who can better clarify his meanings.
He mentions to workout and do aerobics seperately. why is that is important? I typically workout and then do aerobics.
He also mentions intense training. what does he mean by intense. I do 8 exercises per set with 5 reps max.
He also mentions 600 mg of alphalipoic acid? where can I purchase this and does it work with diabetics?

Thanks for anyones help.

mac444

600mgs is a LOT of ALA to be using, especially for someone who’s never used it, and is a terrible for someone who’s an insulin dependent diabetic who’d never used it. Remember that we still don’t know exactly how this stuff works, but it does seem to help those with type II diabetes.

People who use it for physique enhancement need to remember that it affects fat cells just as it does muscle cells.

I hope this helps, even if only a little.

Cheers

Separating aerobic training and weight training will just give you 2 anabolic insulin responses instead of one.

Be careful with ALA if you are a diabetic.

Dave,

Wow, not to question you as I guess you know your stuff. LOL Just wondering about this comment.

Have they proven this now? Just interested. Last I heard it was still unclear about ALA/R-ALA’s effects on muscle and or fat tissue.

Thanks if you could shed some light on this.

For quite some time I experimented with R-ala in various doses. Now I just keep it simple and have 100 mg a day. Maybe an extra 100 for a big carb up post training.

Does it help, not sure but one can hope.

Ltr and thanks in advance,
Phill

Fill, you DARE question me?! lol

Didn’t we have a discussion about this a while ago, or is it deja vu?
Anyway, every study I’ve seen on fat cells and ALA has shown that it has insulin-like effects. Taken one step further, the receptors on fat cells should be the same as those on muscle, AND it’s clear that the intracellular signalling is stimulated by ALA.
Basically I see ALA as insulin in a pill. This may NOT be a good thing, because I used insulin for a while and got some nice permanent fat gain from it.

BTW-Great avatar!
Cheers

[quote]Phill wrote:
Have they proven this now? Just interested. Last I heard it was still unclear about ALA/R-ALA’s effects on muscle and or fat tissue.[/quote]

[quote]David Barr wrote:
Fill, you DARE question me?! lol

Didn’t we have a discussion about this a while ago, or is it deja vu?

BTW-Great avatar!
Cheers

[/quote]

Well of course we talked about this on several occasions I think. Somewhere between how women that really want you are all the one that ignore you and our contemplating plate tectonics, or some other usefull peice of BS. LOL

No just wondering if you had something new I was not aware of.

I am in agreement with you. It is just that studies that talk up the use of ALA all seem to say that the jury is still out on the whole LBM/fat tissue thing. Of Course.

I still feel it can be a somewhat usefull supp. for its reported antioxidant capabilities and hell it may even help a little to shuttle thosde nutrients faster when timed right. PWO for example.

But like with everything yes I agree take care in how you use it. Study it first and know what the hell it can do to you before loading up on something. The stuff is far from magical and could possibly, like anything in excess, be harmfull and excess can be very individual.

Fun chatting with you again, we’ll have to do this more often.:slight_smile:

By the way Thanks on the Avatar. Figure lots of people put a pick of them selves up so I am rotating some of my self portraits from time to time. A way to pimp my art and be a lil, unique, I suppose. Glad you like it.

Ltr,
Phill

Now I could swear that ALA only increased the insulin sensitivity of muscle. (R being way superior to the racemix, or the s isomer.) Although I believe its actions are similar to metformin, which actually causes a reduction in fat in diabetics, though a minor effect, and not effective in non-diabetic patients.

There are studies that show increased insulin sensitivity, and benefits to diabetics with the use of ALA. (I have seen a study as high as 1,800 mg a day) And there are benefits to diabetics in regards to neuropathy. (At least when combined with vitamin E.)

I doubt Berardi would recommend it if it was bad.

“Insulin sensitivity” is a term that gets thrown around WAAAAY too often in the bodybuilding world, and people seem to have only a vague concept of what it means.

Right now, the research is equivocal as to whether ALA will stimulate glucose uptake on its own or only in the presence of insulin.

Check out the literature and you’ll see that insulin signaling is equally stimulated by ALA in isolated adipocytes. This model is all we have, which shows the lack of info we really have on this supplement.

[quote]The Mage wrote:
Now I could swear that ALA only increased the insulin sensitivity of muscle.[/quote]

Right now, studies on non diabetics are all but non existent. If it worked like metformin and wasn’t selective in its effects, then its use would seem to be contraindicated.

[quote]
…though a minor effect, and not effective in non-diabetic patients.[/quote]

Extrapolating the effects ALA in diabetics to healthy people is like doing so with cancer drugs in people who don’t have cancer. In other words it doesn’t mean anything.

C’mon dude, did you really just say that? That’s scary. Especially when we know so little about a topic. BTW-What does “bad” mean, and why would JB have info that no one else on the planet has?

Allow me to reafirm my position, that we just don’t know enough about ALA to state that it definitively hinders fat loss/maintainence, but so far, the small clues suggest that it is.

As always, I’m just trying to give people the info from which to make objective opinions.

Phill and Mage, thanks for the info, you guys are always helpful contributors to a discussion!

Cheers