Insulin-Only Cycle, 18 Yrs Old

Pharma / TRT
22

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]KosanFalcon wrote:
I’ve been using simple carbs PWO to spike my insulin for a while now and love the results. I know leucine is perfect to use with it also, but as I am on a tight budget, I normally stick to a 10g glutamine/10g creatine/70-200g sugar mix immediately PWO. IMMEDIATELY PWO is key; if I for some reason don’t have anything with me at the gym to start sipping on my last set, I buy some Sprite or cranberry soda from the cafe at my gym.
If you do want to use leucine, I think a minimum of 5g PWO could be beneficial. More like 10-20g if you can do that.

I’d recommend starting with less sugar, maybe around 50g, and assess your results. When I’m having enough, I notice the feeling of my pump returning/extending, as my body uses the insulin spike to replenish my muscle glycogen and get started on the repair process.

You can see some really good results with a simple glutamine/creatine/sugar mix PWO, and it’s super-cheap to do it this way. Have something with dextrose or high-fructose corn syrup as your sugar source, as these are digested very rapidly.

[/quote]
No. I’m guessing you are quite young, because that’s the only way a person can make this kind of approach work for them IME.

‘High fructose corn syrup’… terrible advice IMO, sorry. Reams of evidence out there to show that HCFS is possibly the worst carb source to use, primarily because the fructose won’t replenish the muscles and will tend towards denovo lipogenesis.

BBB[/quote]

I stay away from HFCS primarily because I’ve read it’s relation to mercury and about the negative effects of mercury in the human body but as a carb, in a depleted state, the body could pretty much absorb what needs from it and DNLG could be prevented if the amounts consumed aren’t extremely high (as to avoid that spill over effect). I wouldn’t use HFCS myself as the amounts of carbs consumed after my workouts are rather large (thus leaving to DLNG in case I happen to re-fill my glycogen compeltely), but since Kosan Falcon sticks to less than 200g maybe that’s why he hasn’t gotten fat. What do you think BBB?

P.S: I feel you completely discouraged the use of insulin for me, at this point in my weight lifting journey, however, besides Leucine (which I’ve now implemented), is there anything else I could invest in?

23

[quote]RCHY wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]KosanFalcon wrote:
I’ve been using simple carbs PWO to spike my insulin for a while now and love the results. I know leucine is perfect to use with it also, but as I am on a tight budget, I normally stick to a 10g glutamine/10g creatine/70-200g sugar mix immediately PWO. IMMEDIATELY PWO is key; if I for some reason don’t have anything with me at the gym to start sipping on my last set, I buy some Sprite or cranberry soda from the cafe at my gym.
If you do want to use leucine, I think a minimum of 5g PWO could be beneficial. More like 10-20g if you can do that.

I’d recommend starting with less sugar, maybe around 50g, and assess your results. When I’m having enough, I notice the feeling of my pump returning/extending, as my body uses the insulin spike to replenish my muscle glycogen and get started on the repair process.

You can see some really good results with a simple glutamine/creatine/sugar mix PWO, and it’s super-cheap to do it this way. Have something with dextrose or high-fructose corn syrup as your sugar source, as these are digested very rapidly.

[/quote]
No. I’m guessing you are quite young, because that’s the only way a person can make this kind of approach work for them IME.

‘High fructose corn syrup’… terrible advice IMO, sorry. Reams of evidence out there to show that HCFS is possibly the worst carb source to use, primarily because the fructose won’t replenish the muscles and will tend towards denovo lipogenesis.

BBB[/quote]

I stay away from HFCS primarily because I’ve read it’s relation to mercury and about the negative effects of mercury in the human body but as a carb, in a depleted state, the body could pretty much absorb what needs from it and DNLG could be prevented if the amounts consumed aren’t extremely high (as to avoid that spill over effect). I wouldn’t use HFCS myself as the amounts of carbs consumed after my workouts are rather large (thus leaving to DLNG in case I happen to re-fill my glycogen compeltely), but since Kosan Falcon sticks to less than 200g maybe that’s why he hasn’t gotten fat. What do you think BBB?

P.S: I feel you completely discouraged the use of insulin for me, at this point in my weight lifting journey, however, besides Leucine (which I’ve now implemented), is there anything else I could invest in? [/quote]

BBB, have your legs ever started shaking after working them out?

24

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]KosanFalcon wrote:
I’ve been using simple carbs PWO to spike my insulin for a while now and love the results. I know leucine is perfect to use with it also, but as I am on a tight budget, I normally stick to a 10g glutamine/10g creatine/70-200g sugar mix immediately PWO. IMMEDIATELY PWO is key; if I for some reason don’t have anything with me at the gym to start sipping on my last set, I buy some Sprite or cranberry soda from the cafe at my gym.
If you do want to use leucine, I think a minimum of 5g PWO could be beneficial. More like 10-20g if you can do that.

I’d recommend starting with less sugar, maybe around 50g, and assess your results. When I’m having enough, I notice the feeling of my pump returning/extending, as my body uses the insulin spike to replenish my muscle glycogen and get started on the repair process.

You can see some really good results with a simple glutamine/creatine/sugar mix PWO, and it’s super-cheap to do it this way. Have something with dextrose or high-fructose corn syrup as your sugar source, as these are digested very rapidly.

[/quote]
No. I’m guessing you are quite young, because that’s the only way a person can make this kind of approach work for them IME.

‘High fructose corn syrup’… terrible advice IMO, sorry. Reams of evidence out there to show that HCFS is possibly the worst carb source to use, primarily because the fructose won’t replenish the muscles and will tend towards denovo lipogenesis.

BBB[/quote]

I use dextrose or malodextrin after my workouts, I have read conflicting ideas on the subject for years.

I tested it, found it to be to my liking, kept it in my program.

HFCS is less than ideal, infacts its pretty far from, but at a certain point, calories are calories as far as the body is concerned.

If it is demanding energy and is in a catabolic state, any source is better than none.

25

[quote]Westclock wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]KosanFalcon wrote:
I’ve been using simple carbs PWO to spike my insulin for a while now and love the results. I know leucine is perfect to use with it also, but as I am on a tight budget, I normally stick to a 10g glutamine/10g creatine/70-200g sugar mix immediately PWO. IMMEDIATELY PWO is key; if I for some reason don’t have anything with me at the gym to start sipping on my last set, I buy some Sprite or cranberry soda from the cafe at my gym.
If you do want to use leucine, I think a minimum of 5g PWO could be beneficial. More like 10-20g if you can do that.

I’d recommend starting with less sugar, maybe around 50g, and assess your results. When I’m having enough, I notice the feeling of my pump returning/extending, as my body uses the insulin spike to replenish my muscle glycogen and get started on the repair process.

You can see some really good results with a simple glutamine/creatine/sugar mix PWO, and it’s super-cheap to do it this way. Have something with dextrose or high-fructose corn syrup as your sugar source, as these are digested very rapidly.

[/quote]
No. I’m guessing you are quite young, because that’s the only way a person can make this kind of approach work for them IME.

‘High fructose corn syrup’… terrible advice IMO, sorry. Reams of evidence out there to show that HCFS is possibly the worst carb source to use, primarily because the fructose won’t replenish the muscles and will tend towards denovo lipogenesis.

BBB[/quote]

I use dextrose or malodextrin after my workouts, I have read conflicting ideas on the subject for years.

I tested it, found it to be to my liking, kept it in my program.

HFCS is less than ideal, infacts its pretty far from, but at a certain point, calories are calories as far as the body is concerned.

If it is demanding energy and is in a catabolic state, any source is better than none.
[/quote]

In a first world country almost anyone can find a carb source besides HFCS. I know what youre saying but it’s a cop out to use the calorie is a calorie argument to even remotely justify consuming HFCS as a postworkout carb source.

Any source is better than none, true. But HFCS is NEVER the only carb source available to the average american.

26

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Westclock wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]KosanFalcon wrote:
I’ve been using simple carbs PWO to spike my insulin for a while now and love the results. I know leucine is perfect to use with it also, but as I am on a tight budget, I normally stick to a 10g glutamine/10g creatine/70-200g sugar mix immediately PWO. IMMEDIATELY PWO is key; if I for some reason don’t have anything with me at the gym to start sipping on my last set, I buy some Sprite or cranberry soda from the cafe at my gym.
If you do want to use leucine, I think a minimum of 5g PWO could be beneficial. More like 10-20g if you can do that.

I’d recommend starting with less sugar, maybe around 50g, and assess your results. When I’m having enough, I notice the feeling of my pump returning/extending, as my body uses the insulin spike to replenish my muscle glycogen and get started on the repair process.

You can see some really good results with a simple glutamine/creatine/sugar mix PWO, and it’s super-cheap to do it this way. Have something with dextrose or high-fructose corn syrup as your sugar source, as these are digested very rapidly.

[/quote]
No. I’m guessing you are quite young, because that’s the only way a person can make this kind of approach work for them IME.

‘High fructose corn syrup’… terrible advice IMO, sorry. Reams of evidence out there to show that HCFS is possibly the worst carb source to use, primarily because the fructose won’t replenish the muscles and will tend towards denovo lipogenesis.

BBB[/quote]

I use dextrose or malodextrin after my workouts, I have read conflicting ideas on the subject for years.

I tested it, found it to be to my liking, kept it in my program.

HFCS is less than ideal, infacts its pretty far from, but at a certain point, calories are calories as far as the body is concerned.

If it is demanding energy and is in a catabolic state, any source is better than none.
[/quote]

In a first world country almost anyone can find a carb source besides HFCS. I know what youre saying but it’s a cop out to use the calorie is a calorie argument to even remotely justify consuming HFCS as a postworkout carb source.

Any source is better than none, true. But HFCS is NEVER the only carb source available to the average american. [/quote]

Very much in agreement. Personally in a pinch, I will use chocolate milk. Lactose and usually quite a decent amount of actual sugar, not HFCS.

But I feel it prudent to point out that given the choice between nothing, and a soda with HFCS, Ill take the soda.

27

The insulin’s still in the fridge though…

28

Bump

29

[quote]RCHY wrote:
The insulin’s still in the fridge though…[/quote]

I hope it stays there forever

30

I am a type 1 diabetic and am personally forced to used insulin. It’s incredibly anabolic and is incredibly useful for adding mass. Most diabetics experience this in the negative as a major fat-gainer because it simply opens cells up and shovels nutrients in. I really have no ability to evaluate the effects of insulin on a non-diabetic, but I’ll give you some first-hand advice having been insulin dependent for almost 25 years.

  1. Do not even think about doing this unless you are prepared to monitor your blood sugar every 10 minutes the first 10 or so times you try this. Your metabolism is extremely erratic. Your age makes this even worse. The effect of 10 units (for example) one day may do almost nothing to your blood sugar, but given different metabolic/hormonal conditions they may literally put you in a coma without a serious glucose hit to counter the down-surge.

  2. Be aware that injecting insulin (humolog) in your extremities (ie leg/butt) will take about 45 minutes to really go into effect. Into your stomach expect the same effect in about 20 - 30 depending on your fat % (the less the faster). This is significantly slower than natural insulin from your body and RAMPS UP IN POTENCY over about 2 hours unlike insulin from your body. 100% pure medical grade glucose takes about 5 min to impact your blood glucose levels. Sucrose (table sugar as in a coca cola) will take about 12 min. Anything with fat in it will significantly slow the absorbtion. For example, I can eat Ben and Jerry’s ice cream with pretty negligible effect on my blood glucose level - about the same or less even than eating fruit. It’s loaded with sugar, but there’s so much fat in it that it slows absorption to a halt. As a non-diabetic, if your blood sugar starts heading below about 70 (the level it would be after a true 24 hour no-food of any kind fast) you had better start eating simple sugar fast (without fat of any kind - ie NOT chocolate). I personally mix about 1/4 cup of honey into my protein shake and this works great. In a pinch, gel candies like jelly beans, regular soda, or orange juice work pretty well.

  3. Unless you’re truly doing ass-busting compound exercises like squats and deadlifts, insulin will probably make you fat. You’re totally missing the point of insulin if you get low blood sugar (think below 80 as a good safe bottom number) The point is to COUNTERACT the insulin serving as a fork-lift to load up your ripped-up muscle cells by dumping enough simple carbs and protein in them to keep your blood sugar CONSTANT. Shoot for about 100 on the blood glucose monitor. If you’re getting lower, it means you either took too much insulin and now are risking a medical emergency or need to eat more glucose to feed your cells. You’re not getting stronger if you get low. This simply ruins your glycogen reserves and will exhaust you for no benefit. Really, if you’re getting shaky etc, you screwed up.

  4. Taking insulin post workout is stupid. It takes roughly 30 minutes to do anything (unless you’re doing heavy aerobic exercise which may cut that time by as much as 50% due to increased circulation rate) because you are putting it into fat tissue and not directly into your blood stream. I take 15-20 units right before my first heavy set and this works great. Assuming I started with a normal blood sugar, I start slooowly drinking my honey/protein shake about 20 min into the work out and finish it on the way to the shower. You would be insane to take this amount because your pancreas is making insulin already. 2 units if probably too little to do much though.

  5. Key point- the number on the blood glucose monitor tells you 1 moment in time. The reason I’m saying to check every 10 minutes is to see the TREND. If you’re 130, then 10 minutes later 100 - get the message: You’re crashing. This is a FAST rate of change and if you don’t want to get low, you need to proactively eat some glucose to stay at 100 or else you will be at 60 or so in 10 mor minutes, then eat to respond - but that glucose won’t have any impact fo another 10 minutes when you’re 40. At 40 you couldn’t follow basic directions, will probably see spots, and may appear drunk to others. Having never been conditioned for it, I would be shocked if you didn’t pass out at 30. 20 is almost a guaranteed trip to the hospital. If you’re conscious at this blood sugar, you would have a hard time remembering your home address. Lifting weights with low blood sugar is not only dangerous (ie your muscles are starving and can’t function with serious load) but this will only drive your blood sugar lower. in Summary – it’s the TREND that’s the point of monitoring every so often, not the number right now. Really get that or this is not safe.

  6. You can handle a good bit more protein / carbs than is typically recommended since the recommendations are based on your natural insulin response to that glucose input. Try upping everything about 5% per unit of insulin you’re taking. Don’t even think about waiting until you’re totally done with the workout to start ingesting carbs - again the point is to keep your blood sugar STEADY against the extra insulin pushing you down.

  7. Be clear that insulin with aerobic work is both very very dangerous and is counterproductive. You want to burn fat when you run, not sugar your blood. Taking insulin before/right after running will only make you either pass out or get fat.

  8. Injecting into your stomach is probably a bad idea. Put it right into the muscle you’re focusing on. If you’re doing a day around front squats, split the dose and put it into your quads. Reg squats - put it into your butt. Insulin is silly on an arm day. These muscles are just too small to really have much metabolic impact. If you really kill yourself, yes they will change your metabolism, but nothing at all like squats etc.

  9. for the above reasons, as a diabetic who is forced to use insulin, I find a rippetoe/stronglifts type workout most useful. You just can’t use insulin so effectively with classic splits since they just don’t hit your metabolic system as hard as full-body compounds every workout.

  10. My using insulin intelligently as explained above cuts my recovery time by at least 24 hours on my muscular system. My CNS shares no such benefit. :frowning:

  11. All this said, insulin is the most anabolic hormone. It can definitely help pack on muscle. But I’d trade my house to stop having to think about this crap 24/7/365 for the rest of my life.

Good luck!

31

^still think it’s worth it Op?

32

Read this, and slap yourself in the face between each paragraph…

33

Wow what an absolute millennial douchbag you are!! Ha ha “your weight lifting journey!” You were just sucking on your momma t i tt ies a few years ago and waiting for her to cook you dinner (probably chef boy ar dee) after you finished you bath time!! You are DUMB! Don’t worry you WILL be on PEDS soon enough…it is the “Cheater” mentality! Then you will walk around acting like you got your results thru superior technique and knowledge…when in reality you will be a 2 pump chump, can’t last on any conditioning work because you will be out of shape, and destroying your organs, endocrine system, and your neurotransmitter balance!

I am 47, a competitive Hockey player, and an athletic guru…You wouldn’t last 30 mins thru my workout even with your “short-cut mentality!” You would be puking in exhaustion because you are a big pussy!! Come to LA fitness in Sandy Springs , Ga…I will put you thru a workout, 1000$ you cannot finish it lol!!

What a stupid person you are…

34

You bumped an 8 year old thread dude

No worries though, we’ve all done it at one time or another… also I think my generation is gen z, millennial would refer to being born in the 90s I think (could be wrong, not well versed on what year refers to which generation)

Nothing wrong with informed use of PEDS… what there IS something wrong with is

  • 99.99 percent of 18 y/olds have no business using PEDS, this guy wanted to use INSULIN of all things too!
  • insulin is incredibly dangerous to be casually messing around with, only the most hardcore of competitors should be using that… and even then “should” is a stretch… no one should really be messing with something so potent/dangerous that simply timing a meal wrong post injection could kill you

That being said, no offence dude… but you came across as kind of a dick in you’re response. Someone asks about PED use in the pharma forum… you call him a cheater despite the fact he doesn’t mention playing sports, tell him he’s destroying himself neurologically (this pertains to anabolic steroids regardless of age, just saw a new study in which indicate AAS mediated neurotoxicity may be worse than initially thought)…

He isn’t looking at cooking his heart/neurological balance from this… but taking something like insulin is potentially asking for a far more serious consequence… death!!!

But taking cheap shots, insulting etc… this is the problem I have with the way adults talk to kids, it pisses us off, and in person (not talking about me as I’m generally very passive, the only two things that really get me riled up are discrimination and bullying…) id be very wary about talking to a hot headed teenager (or group of teenagers) in this manner… seriously, teenage boys of around 16-18 are typically the most volatile individuals I know, they don’t stop for a second to think about consequences to their actions

Is taking insulin a bad idea? Fucking yes, especially when you’re 18 and probably have no clue what you’re doing… it’s an extremely dumb and potentially lethal decision. No kid in their right mind would use slin if they knew the inherent risks associated with it. In future reference, if another kid (or even adult) comes to T-nation with an idea like this… it’s imperative to talk him/her out of it (not because they’re “cheating”… this is the pharma forum, if you don’t like doping because you view it as cheating… even for personal use… then don’t post in the pharma forum…) it’s imperative to talk one out of this because it’s legitimately lethal within an acute setting… not like AAS which over many years tends to be a silent killer (similarly to high blood pressure… of which AAS can induce lol)

@Chris_Colucci can we close this one too (8 years old)

2 Likes
35

i was trolling dude, this was because of an argument with my brother where he wanted to do this and he did not believe me it was a stupid idea so i started logging everything he did as if i was him

36

In your head did you really think anyone would read that excuse and not think you’re full of shit? (asking for my brother)

2 Likes
37

I’ve seen two posts from H4L so far, and both were just Walmart-brand alphadouche attempts to show the metaphorical size of his beanbag to strangers on the internet. Fully agree with your entire post but you’re probably wasting keystrokes on a lost cause :expressionless:

1 Like
38

Well… he doesn’t use gear… so they’re probably massive… to the roidsters, average sized beanbags are huge