T Nation

Insulin On Its Own

I have read most of the threads on here as well as CJM and other various sites about usage and diabetes. Most sites tend to agree that 1 it is dangerous and 2 not to use it as a standalone.

I would like to try insulin by itself. I do not really see any problems with using it by itself other than it would work better with AAS, but the price is right, very right, and I think it would definately benefit me.

I plan on using it at around 3-4 iu post workout. I am using a full body routine and would only be using it 3 times per week after training sessions. I also do sprint training twice a week and walk on an incline treadmil (12% at 3.5 miles per hour for 20 mins) 2 times a week.

Can any one please care to comment on insulin use by itself?

I live in Canada so I believe that it will be easy for me to obtain OTC. The cost will be around $30 for a 10ml vial of Humalog.

Thanks

first i should say that i’ve never used insulin as an adjunct to my bodybuilding efforts. even being an RN i’d be very skittish about the potential for dropping my blood sugar rapidly. you mentioned that you would use it post workout but didnt mention anything about what your post workout nutrient intake would be like.

i’m thinking you would need to have a substantial macronutrient intake to overcome the depleted glycogen stores and then to justify the 4 units of insulin. hopefully you’ll keep a glucometer at the ready to see how your body responds to this protocol. good luck.

Good call on the glucometer. I looked into getting one last year just out of curiosity. I think this could definately be a life saver.

Right now my knowledge on insulin use is sub par and would only consider using it as I gain more knowledge.

As we speak my workout nutrition is this:

30 min prior 1.5 scoops protein
Peri workout 1 scoop protein and 1 scoop gatorade
Post workout (20 min after workout) 1 scoop protein and 1 scoop gatorade

post workout meal (45 min after workout)
1/3 cup of oats
1/3 cups of steel cut oats
1/3 cup all bran
3 Tbsp quinoa
3 Tbsp blueberries
8 oz chicken
salad w spinach, cucumbers, zucchini, green and red peppers, brocolli, and olive oil and balsamic viniger
1/4 cottage cheeze

2 hrs after that I eat
6 oz salmon
Salad that is twice as big as before
Walnuts, cashews, almonds, and pecans
1/4 avacado

I eat exactly the same meals on my workout days and have been doing so for around 8 months. I also have the same meals on each of my sprinting days, and off days, etc. I really like a carb cycling approach. It makes alot of sense.

I have my nutrition plan on excel for both my workout days and non workout days. I have found that this has been of great benefit for determining the amount of calories and carbs I need.

Thanks a bunch for your response.

I would really like to post my nutrition information on this site for others to look at as well as offer advice. Since this is the only forum that I have posted in do you guys feel that I should post that information here on the Steroid forum or the Supplements and Nutrition one? I would like the advice of those who use as well as those who do not. The answer may be a simple one (ie the Suppl and Nutrit forum)and I may have answered it my self, by thinking outloud.

Responses are welcome.

Thank you.

Just thought I would add this:

Post Workout Meal works out to 91 grams of carbs at 1007 Cals and the next meal 25 grams of carbs at 1000 Cals.

Gatorade cotains 33 carbs and 130 Cals
Protein powder is 4.5 grams of carbs and 180 Cals.

All in all about an hour after workout I have around 124 grams of carbs.

Do you feel that that would be enough for not going hypo at 4 ius, assuming I should have 10 grams of carbs for every IU?

[quote]thetruepitbull wrote:
Just thought I would add this:

Post Workout Meal works out to 91 grams of carbs at 1007 Cals and the next meal 25 grams of carbs at 1000 Cals.

Gatorade cotains 33 carbs and 130 Cals
Protein powder is 4.5 grams of carbs and 180 Cals.

All in all about an hour after workout I have around 124 grams of carbs.

Do you feel that that would be enough for not going hypo at 4 ius, assuming I should have 10 grams of carbs for every IU?[/quote]

First off I’ll just state that I’ve never used it before however I’ve done much research and plan on using in the near future. Most agree that the “Insulin and Big Fat Bastard” syndrome is due to an overabundance of carbs PWO. That being said only an uneducated fool would restrict carbs after insulin administration. The “rule” that most tend to agree on is 80 grams(60 monosacharide, 20 poly) regardless of I.U’s or bodyweight then 10 grams for every I.U thereafter but some say this is just playing it safe. A glucose moniter would definately be a good investment so you could know how many carbs to ingest without going way overboard and adding to fat stores.

Also the bulk of your carbs should be in the PWO shake IMMEDIATELY after your shot unless you are experienced and know exactly how your body responds. Hopefully Bushy will chime in with his personal usage and experiences.

Here is a little blurb by Bushy:

It is possible that if you ONLY take in simple sugars PWO with insulin you will cause a hypo due to the fact that once the simple carbs are out of your bloodstream, you have nothing left, ie no complex carbs to sustain blood sugar levels. What I do is take a range of carbs from simple, to complex - honey, bananas, frozen berries, fruit juice, milk and oats all go in the blender with whey and egg whites (also creatine, as PWO with insulin is a great time for it). This way I get a sustained release of both carbs and protein (whey is quick, eggs medium and caesin slow to digest), ensuring that I don’t get a big dip in plasma levels, causing me to hypo…

I understand what you mean by the Fat Bastard Syndrome, so I guess you want to consume the right amount of carbs to keep you from going hypo and not too many to have an overabundance. Geez won’t that be easy!? This is where the monitor would become useful.

The timing of carbs will primarily depend on the type of insulin you will be using. This is where I may choose Humalog over Humulin R, due to the shorter onset, peak and duration. Get my insulin spike over and done with and not have to worry about my carb intake 4 hours later.

I also would like to pose another question:

My postworkout meal is roughly 45 mins after my training (25 after my shake), then 2 hrs after that I have low GI carbs, proteins, and fats, and continue with the proteins and fats every 2.5 hrs thereafter.

Will I have to postpone the ingestion of fats since the duration of Humalog is 4 to 5 hrs? and continue to eat carbs throughout?

I only ask this because I have read that eating fats while having an insulin spike can lead to higher amount of fat storage. Does this relate in anyway to what Dr. Berrardi speaks about when consuming P+C and P+F separately? I also like to follow this as I am a fan of him as well.

Im personally finding that a serving of a creatine supplment with a lot of sugar in it post work out before the shot keeps things where they shold be. Follow this with a massive weight gain shake and then head home and pretty much start eating.
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