T Nation

Insulin Index

Can anyone provide a link to the Insulin Index JB speaks of in his article “The Anabolic Power of Insulin”?

Also, while I have your attention, why is JB so agains milk? Im not a big fan of it either but just wondered. What does this mean for our consumption of cottage cheese by the boatfull?

Goldie

Milk has lactose sugar, whey and casein. The glycemic index is not high for milk but the insulin index has milk as high. Surge produces a much larger insulin response. This effectively makes low fat milk a poor quality post work out drink.

If you drink milk at other times than post workout you will get protein and sugar. This will lead to weight gain (including fat gain). If you are skinny and just can not seem to gain weight then drink a gallon or two every day.

That fat gain is one reason Dr. John M Berardi does not like it.

This is the only web site I could find that displays a table with readable items. You will have to scroll down a ways to find the info on Insulin Index.

http://www.theantiagingdoctor.com/nutrphys.htm

[quote]tall tom wrote:
If you drink milk at other times than post workout you will get protein and sugar. This will lead to weight gain (including fat gain). [/quote]

do a search for Micheal B Zemel

Got it. Thank you!

Goldie

Dr. Lonnie Lowery reported that calcium rich diets help with weight loss.

Dairy calcium and whey do even better for weight loss.
Dr. Michael B Zemel writes that
“dairy sources of calcium markedly attenuate weight and fat gain and accelerate fat loss to a greater degree than do supplemental sources of calcium. This augmented effect of dairy products relative to supplemental calcium is likely due to additional bioactive compounds, including the angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitors and the rich concentration of branched-chain amino acids in whey, which act synergistically with calcium to attenuate adiposity.”
Zemel MB, Role of calcium and dairy products in energy partitioning and weight management., Am J Clin Nutr 79: 5, 907S-912S, May, 2004.

I searched through many of Dr. Zemel’s works and find he states dairy as the calcium source. Dairy includes milk, cheese, whey, yougurt, kefir, etc… I think you can easily get the dairy calcium without consuming lactose.

Dr. Zemel is doing wonderful work for helping obesity.

[quote]tall tom wrote:

I searched through many of Dr. Zemel’s works and find he states dairy as the calcium source. Dairy includes milk, cheese, whey, yougurt, kefir, etc… I think you can easily get the dairy calcium without consuming lactose.

Dr. Zemel is doing wonderful work for helping obesity.[/quote]

And Micheals work also insinuating that as part of an overall diet, lactose is not a problem. Excessive intakes of lactose and overall calories will cause an issue.
Milk, as part of a negative calorie diet will allow additional weight loss over a calorically identical diet that doesnt contain the milk.

When they nail down a mechanism for the dairy/weight concept it will be good.

[quote]tall tom wrote:
Dr. Lonnie Lowery reported that calcium rich diets help with weight loss.

Dairy calcium and whey do even better for weight loss.
Dr. Michael B Zemel writes that
“dairy sources of calcium markedly attenuate weight and fat gain and accelerate fat loss to a greater degree than do supplemental sources of calcium. This augmented effect of dairy products relative to supplemental calcium is likely due to additional bioactive compounds, including the angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitors and the rich concentration of branched-chain amino acids in whey, which act synergistically with calcium to attenuate adiposity.”
Zemel MB, Role of calcium and dairy products in energy partitioning and weight management., Am J Clin Nutr 79: 5, 907S-912S, May, 2004.

I searched through many of Dr. Zemel’s works and find he states dairy as the calcium source. Dairy includes milk, cheese, whey, yougurt, kefir, etc… I think you can easily get the dairy calcium without consuming lactose.

Dr. Zemel is doing wonderful work for helping obesity.[/quote]

ACE inhibition will not decrease adiposity but will reduce weight through decreased blood volume and diuresis. Basically they’ll make you hold less water - not necessarily a positive if your goal is to lose weight, but possibly a positive for people with hypertension.

[quote]DonM wrote:
ACE inhibition will not decrease adiposity but will reduce weight through decreased blood volume and diuresis. Basically they’ll make you hold less water - not necessarily a positive if your goal is to lose weight, but possibly a positive for people with hypertension.

[/quote]

While what you wrote is potentially true from the general renin-angiotensin system (RAS) for blood pressure regulation point of view, you are missing the concept.

Adipose has a fully functioning RAS, and when the production of the final product angiotensin II (ang2) is high, it may affect BP regulation as well as binding to an adipose Ang2 receptor (AT2 generally, but AT1 also has a role to play) and reduce lipolysis and increase lipogenesis ie increase adiposity (ANG2 and other products/metablites within the RAS are also needed for ceullar differentiation and other areas).

At least 3-4 rat trials and one human trial have showed weight loss with drug based ACE inhibitors, which of course are far more powerful than the ace inhibting peptides available from dairy, but it is still one potential route for the increase benefit of dairy over and above of its calcium content alone.

[quote]cycomiko wrote:
DonM wrote:
ACE inhibition will not decrease adiposity but will reduce weight through decreased blood volume and diuresis. Basically they’ll make you hold less water - not necessarily a positive if your goal is to lose weight, but possibly a positive for people with hypertension.

While what you wrote is potentially true from the general renin-angiotensin system (RAS) for blood pressure regulation point of view, you are missing the concept.

Adipose has a fully functioning RAS, and when the production of the final product angiotensin II (ang2) is high, it may affect BP regulation as well as binding to an adipose Ang2 receptor (AT2 generally, but AT1 also has a role to play) and reduce lipolysis and increase lipogenesis ie increase adiposity (ANG2 and other products/metablites within the RAS are also needed for ceullar differentiation and other areas).

At least 3-4 rat trials and one human trial have showed weight loss with drug based ACE inhibitors, which of course are far more powerful than the ace inhibting peptides available from dairy, but it is still one potential route for the increase benefit of dairy over and above of its calcium content alone.[/quote]

Interesting stuff - thanks for clearing that up.

[quote]cycomiko wrote:
DonM wrote:
ACE inhibition will not decrease adiposity but will reduce weight through decreased blood volume and diuresis. Basically they’ll make you hold less water - not necessarily a positive if your goal is to lose weight, but possibly a positive for people with hypertension.

While what you wrote is potentially true from the general renin-angiotensin system (RAS) for blood pressure regulation point of view, you are missing the concept.

Adipose has a fully functioning RAS, and when the production of the final product angiotensin II (ang2) is high, it may affect BP regulation as well as binding to an adipose Ang2 receptor (AT2 generally, but AT1 also has a role to play) and reduce lipolysis and increase lipogenesis ie increase adiposity (ANG2 and other products/metablites within the RAS are also needed for ceullar differentiation and other areas).

At least 3-4 rat trials and one human trial have showed weight loss with drug based ACE inhibitors, which of course are far more powerful than the ace inhibting peptides available from dairy, but it is still one potential route for the increase benefit of dairy over and above of its calcium content alone.[/quote]

PS - what is the mechanism behind increased lipogenesis/decreased lipolysis as a result of binding to the AT2 receptor on adipose? Would an AT2 competitive antagonist have a similar effect to an ACE inhibitor?

They are not sure of the exact mechanism yet, as its still a relatively novel area.
ACE inhibitors/angiotensin receptor antagonist seem to give the same result. I cant remember the drugs name or if it was specific AT2 antagonist but I doubt it was.

I read an aricle at mendosa.com that describes the ii and states that the milk is really the only difference between the glycemic index and insulin index. the same people are providing the research on both. I am diabetic so my main focus is the insulin only not really the fat content.

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/insulin.htm

theer is the link