T Nation

Insulin and AAS: Last Bulk Before Showtime

I’ll start by giving everyone my stats:
6’, 22 years old, sport specific (baseball) training through high school and JUCO, bodybuilding for 3 years now. Starting weight: 200 lbs at 15% BF. Competed at 207 lbs at 3.5% BF in Summer 2008, two top 3 placings. Current weight: 260 lbs at 16-18% BF

Have ran 3, very productive, yet simple mass cycles along with a basic contest prep cycle with great success.

I’m proposing a fall (August) mass cycle, I want to add another 15 pounds of lean mass to my frame before the 2010 Competition season.

Weeks: Preparation
1-10: SuperTest 400 @ 800mg/wk
1-3 and 9-12: D-bol @ 30mg/day
1-12 Arimidex @ .5 mg as needed
2-4 and 8-10: Humalog Insulin @ 3-6 IUs upon waking and 2 hours post workout

PCT Plan:
13-17: Nolvadex @ 20mg/day
13-15: Aromasin @ 25mg/day
Tendafil Citrate @ 25mg as needed

SuperTest 400 was chosen due to price/gram. Composed of propionate, cypionate, enanthate, and decanote. Have had good success with it in the past.

I am in the process of sourcing HCG to use during cycle to aid in post cycle recovery.

This is my first encounter with insulin, I have many colleagues that have had great success with it. Upon waking, I will be eating 60g of carbs from pineapple and oatmeal immediately following injection, along with 100g whey shake. An hour later, I will eat another 60-80g of complex carbs. I will be measuring my glucose throughout the day. I am using my natural insulin spike post workout with 80g of waximaize starch, then injecting insulin with my post workout meal, roughly 2 hours post training, with another 60-80g of complex carbs every 2 hours until bedtime.

I’m looking to the veterans of this great forum for advice/critique/constructive criticism. I am not a ‘pro’ or ‘know-it-all’, I’m ready to continue my learning. I have researched insulin protocol for many months and want to see if the vets agree with my cycle and administration.

Thanks guys!

Sorry for such a long opening post, just wanted to cover everything that might be in question.

I want to see if my insulin protocol is in order. I have used the search feature prior to my first post, and wanted to get the ‘OK’ from someone with some insulin experience.

Id personally suggest to drop the one 2 hours post work out. Especially when/if you run 6ius. Unless you plan to be awake for 5-6 hours after that and your work out at least 3ish hours after your first shot. You dont want the effects of the insulin to overlap one another, nor do you want to be going to be with it still running through your system.

If you think you have read enough or know enough about insulin use then its likly still time to read some more.

As for the supertest inject it EOD or go with a different form of test due to the prop ester.

Id also either take nolva at a dose of 40mg/day for the first week or take a much higher dose for the first few days and then 20mg/day for the remaining days.

Thanks LILLGUY001, I’m going to run the Supertest EOD as you recommended. I’ll also run the nolva higher at the first of PCT as well.

I usually wake up around 7AM and don’t get in bed until 10PM or later. I usually workout around 2PM so I was planning on injecting slin around 5PM. Humalog is only active for about 2-5 hours, so that should give it enough time to clear before bed. Would you still cut it out 1-2 hours post workout?

I argree with me doing more research…you can never have enough knowledge.

I have used Humalog, and i found the following nutrioion profile plenty with upto 10iu 3-4x/wk.

I found by the third hour it was safe to continue as normal… if only using 3-6iu i would expect this to be even more the case.

Inject post workout and follow immediately with 70g powdered oats and 100g protein, 20 mins later i would have an apple and at around 50mins (if i waited till an hour and wasnt eating i would go hypo a little too much) begin to eat a complkex meal with some simple sugars in - zero fat and plenty protein (or the same shake with a little maltodextrose in too).
I would wait another hour and make sure i was eating by the time that hour came too - similar ratios of carbs, but no simple carbs necessary, as the spike isnt as intense.

The second (or middle) spike was the most intense by far, with the first being mild and the last moderate.

I think it looks ok. But i am no expert.

Brook

Brook, I like your regiment. Could I use 80g of waximaize (a complex carbohydrate drink) immedately post workout with my 3-6 IUs of humalog? I would then eat the oats and some simple sugars at the 50min mark like you said.

I will make sure to keep my fat intake as close to zero as possible during the time I inject the slin.

I’m going to measuring my glucose throughout the day to prevent going hypo. Thanks for the help.

Well - the thing with slin, is people react slightly differently, it is near impossible to experiment with it the first time without getting SOME hypo symptoms.
Your glucometre will help avoid this, but you will feel it anyway.

This lets you know your own dosing protocol.

As for 80g WMS with 3-6iu, well it is a little too much… especially with 3iu. The storage of fat will be enevitable.

The idea is start at 1g/iu of slin and as you get more and more comfortable with this potentially dangerous hormone, you can reduce the carbs to 0.7g/0.6g per iu.

The reasoning for this is the slin is being supplied externally, so large doses of carbs are not wanted nor needed - as a large spike could be achieved with a large load of dextrose anyway… The carbs are there to keep hypo at bay while you get a much larger proportionate surge of this signalling hormone in comparison to the carbs eaten, getting the protein (creatine and whatever else you may choose to take) to the places required - and after training or in the morning following a hard lactate system session - it is the muscles.

As i said though, safety first - use a higher amount of carbs (just not 80g with 3iu) and adjust as your comfort allows - it is good you have a glucometre.

Brook

Thanks Brook. So with 3 IUs of slin, you recommend only 3g of carbs? I have heard of others recommending dosing of a minimum 10g of carbs per IU administered.

I do want to keep the fat gain at a minimum, less to have to shed later. Am I correct that the normal glucose rangeis between 70-90?

Thanks again!

LOL! Sorry, i could have killed you there! ;p

Yes of course, i meant 10g… it was a typo i do apologise!

Regards

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[quote] Brook wrote:
LOL! Sorry, i could have killed you there! ;p

Yes of course, i meant 10g… it was a typo i do apologise!

Regards[/quote]

No problem, thanks for the clarification, I’ve got a few months to get this sorted out…lol.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
You won’t get that much of a spike from waximaize. In fact only glucose and/or dextrose will ‘spike’ your insulin levels.

However, taking low GI carbs with your PWO shot and your whey and creatine seems to work very will for most people.

If you want a natural spike, fine. If you want an unnatural insulin spike, that’s also fine. Just don’t try to combine the two (ie sugars carbs plus exo insulin shot); you will achieve a ‘double peak’ of insulin levels, resulting in down regulation of the insulin receptor, which = insulin resistance.

BBB[/quote]

Glad to see your post BBB. Thanks for the input. I think I’m getting a better picture of what I need to do. Here is the ‘new’ plan:

3-6 IUs upon waking followed by low GI carbs(10g/IU), 100g whey shake and no fats

3-6 IUs immediatley PWO, followed by low GI carbs(10g/IU) and 100g whey shake.

Only low GI carbs all day. Only running slin 5 days a week (only on training days). 3 weeks on, 3 weeks off, 3 weeks on and discontinue. Still going to check Glucose levels and add carbs accordingly.

Is this plan a winner?

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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I think you’ll piss a lot of those 100g-per-time protein intakes away. Better to consume the 100g over the 2 hour active life of the humalog IMO.

BBB[/quote]

Check that. Thanks BBB