T Nation

Insufflation (Snorting) Dbol - Trip Report

It’s now 3:57pm and the morning nasal dbol dose of approximately 4.5-5mg was much more appropriate. A good warm slow-burn metabolic fire with zero dizziness and maybe only a tiny bit of excess heat today.

What a difference 2mg makes intranasal. The Sun is shining and smiling down upon me I guess. When measuring out such an already potent hormone like dbol - especially when taken by the highly efficient nasal route of administration - doses are so small that a difference of 2-5mg decides insufficiency, perfection or unpleasant excess.

The current procedure is to load the scale with dbol powder until it displays its minimum of 7mg - I’ve seen 6mg once in over 500+ measurements and nothing lower than that number - then take it off the scale and manually scrape about a third back into the bag. For a purely dusty powder like dbol it’s totally inaccurate having to manually divide the powder with only visual reference which is why I’ve purchased what I hope is a better digiscale.

It was a bit freaky though when I went to measure out this afternoon’s Sunifiram dose of 25mg and found myself loading the milligram scale way past the visual amount it always takes and it would still not show 25mg. Turned it upside down to find the paper tape stuck on the battery compartment said the alkaline (1.5V) cells were last replaced 2013/07/01. No more two months for these critical cells - I’ll change them out each month now. Hell, each week if I had to.

Replaced them and remeasured - the new amount was HALF the previous measure and it showed 25mg easily. When the battery potential declines past a certain point the accuracy can suddenly just dropout due to the internal voltage regulator.

These Chinese milligram scales are good if used correctly but forget about the “Low Battery” indicator. Long before it shows low batteries the accuracy goes to crap. When measuring such tiny amounts of hormone it’s not worth saving money by overusing batteries so I bought another sixteen AAA alkalines from two separate eBay sellers.

ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS use ALKALINE 1.5V for all digiscales and check their expiry date which is printed on every one. WRITE THE DATE the new cells went into the scale on some tape or whatever and affix it to the scale.

Maybe it’s time for me to switch to using a plug-in adapter that puts out 6VDC - the milligram scale uses 4 x 1.5V cells. The issue is that adapters have poor filter capacitors or none at all, producing an unstable voltage. Cells always produce a rock-steady voltage with no noise.

Store new alkaline batteries in the coldest possible place to prevent premature voltage loss - NOT a fridge unless you pack them in a sealed container with dessicant to prevent moisture condensation and be sure to let them warm up to room temperature after removal and before opening the sealed container to prevent condensation and allow their current capacity to reach normalcy before use.

The reference voltage is critical - especially for the milligram units from my experience. Rechargeables such as NiMH and NiCad produce only 1.2V instead of the required 1.5V which is 20% less than Alkalines. NiMH and NiCad batteries are NOT USABLE in digiscales of any capacity and especially milligram digiscales. Mine won’t even turn on with 1.2V cells.

For anyone worried about nasal tissue and septum erosion a la Cocaine due to long-term insufflation of dbol or other steroids: no problem.

It’s not the route of insufflation that causes the destruction to coke users’ noses but the toxicity of the Cocaine molecule itself which does not belong inside the human body - it causes chemically-induced cell death (apoptosis). In the study below researchers took cells from humans and cultured them, then exposed them to cocaine and voila! Cell death:

PubMed: Massive apoptosis erodes nasal mucosa of cocaine abusers

“In HaCat cells cellular changes were observed, which confirmed induction of massive apoptotic events. The rate of apoptosis in HaCat cells was dependent on the concentration of cocaine. After 1 hour, 2.5, 5, and 10 mM of cocaine induced 16, 45, and 84% of apoptotic figures, respectively, while 6 hours of exposure increased apoptosis to 25, 54, and 94% at the same concentrations. Caspase expression and activation in HaCat cells treated with 100 microM and 1 mM of cocaine for 1 hour were confirmed by Western blotting.”

“CONCLUSION: Cultured epithelial cells show both time- and dose-dependent increases in apoptosis and cellular damage on cocaine treatment. We suggest that some abusers trigger CIMDL by abnormally boosting apoptosis within nasal epithelial cells.”

In rather stark contrast, the lipophilic (fat-soluble) steroids including Testosterone and most of its variants are non-corrosive and intimately biocompatible with all tissues and will never cause apoptosis. Dbol isn’t much different except for methylation at 17-alpha and a single bond converted to double-bond on the lower-left ring.

Even though Testosterone is just as illegal as its anabolic cousins, the corporations won’t touch them due to politics. Politics does not belong in medicine. Biochemistry belongs in medicine, compassion belongs in medicine, care belongs in medicine. An ugly example of this phenomenon can be found in the victimization of user Wayne, whose HRT program turned into a failure despite trying Testosterone delivered via both injection and patches:

Longecity Forum: Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism

“This time I selected Androderm patches rather than injectable testosterone. After applying 1x2.5mg testosterone patch at night the next day the background tiredness had disappeared and my cognitive function was much improved.”

“However I was not able to maintain this improved mood even after my total testosterone had moved into the normal range. Not using the Androderm patches for a period of perhaps a month and then applying 1x2.5mg patch often gave me the same improvement that I had initially obtained but this was short lived usually only lasting a day. If I applied 2x25mg Androderm patches when recommencing TRT I was very tired the next day.”

With no additional options other than Testosterone as hormone and the choice between needle and patch as route of administration, this man by his symptoms demonstrably needs more than the two ROAs and single hormone being offered to him by his endocrinologist. I’d liken the situation to trying to play Mozart on a piano with only three keys. You’d have to pray that the entire score could be played out on those three keys. People and their circumstances are far more complex than the limited choices on offer by the medical establishment.

A customized HRT program makes the best choices from the full range of androgen replacements each with its own unique effects to deliver the type of restoration that most suits each individual. All androgens including anabolic steroids are fair game for experimentation and most if not all will work. For example, I need additional anabolism but not androgenicity. Dbol is suitable but Testosterone is not. There are cost and route of administration considerations too - I won’t tolerate needles or patches so oral or intranasal are the two available options with intranasal being superior from testing.

Trimel in particular has completed four Testosterone nasal studies though unfortunately the results of these completed studies are behind paywalls. Here’s a list of the studies - most in the last couple years since this is such a cutting-edge route of administration:

2009/08/01 - 2010/05/01: Trimel: Efficacy and Tolerability of Nasobol, an Intra-Nasal Testosterone Product, for Testosterone Replacement in Hypogonadal Men

2010/08/01 - 2010/12/01: Trimel: An Open Label, Randomized, Balanced, Three Treatment, Parallel Design, Pharmacokinetic Study of Intranasal TBS-1 Administration to Hypogonadal Men

2010/11: Trimel: Efficacy of an Intranasal Testosterone Product

2011/09/01 - 2012/02/01: Trimel: An Open-label, Single and Multiple Application of Intranasal Testosterone Gel (TBS-2) in Healthy Premenopausal Female Subjects at Three Dose Levels

It’s now 7:44PM and it seems as if today’s morning dose of about 4.5-5mg nasal dbol hit the mark almost perfectly. Strangely enough, three of the four nasal studies in my previous post above used very similar absolute doses for nasal Testosterone: [5mg, 8mg, 11mg, 14mg] in the first study; [5mg, 5.625mg, 6.75mg] in the second and [5.625mg, 6.75mg] in the third. The fourth study dealt with women and did not report doses. Even if it did there would be no relevance to male HRT.

Independent confirmation is always a pleasure to behold.

After only the second dose using the new nasal ROA, downwards titration has moderated the previously excessive effects to a level that is almost perfect - perhaps +15% in excess. Sides are now nearly nonexistent and expected to be gone in a day or two more of careful dose adjustment.

Am I able to buy some of this off if you? Or am I able to get the details of his company?

Both Testosterone and all the other anabolic steroids are controlled substances in Western and many other countries.

I will write up a guide in the coming days outlining how to find these suppliers. It helped that I’ve been dealing with the Chinese for years while building the Racetam Prices list so I knew all about MOQs, payment methods, samples and the kind of professional language needed to make successful deals.

Let’s just say that I’ve got 13 of them - reputable Chinese chemcos whose backgrounds I’ve researched and whose prices are very, very good. What suprised me the most is that they were quite skilled in packing the powder such that even if the package was opened by Customs they could not find it. It was so well hidden in the box that when I opened it I started panicking thinking they just sent crap. It took only eight days to arrive by EMS and about ten minutes to find the ziploc bag when the box arrived on August 7th. The company I purchased from was so confident of the package’s arrival that they promised to reship if the package did not arrive.

All the quotes - including tracked Express Mail fee - are from $85 to $100 USD per ten grams of dbol 99% powder. That’s a 3.9 year supply at 7mg/day which is sufficient for most HRT. The cost works out to $2.14 per month, or 7 cents per day. A cheaper and more complete solution cannot be found in official medicine unless you’ve got free coverage and even then there are many good reasons to avoid supplemental Testosterone.

As the companies informed me, dbol is the cheapest of them all - very low cost to synthesize. It tastes like Aspirin and works so well that I was absolutely shocked how little was needed - a mere 7mg orally each day. My GI tract is unusually sensitive to many other compounds and I get the runs at the drop of a hat but forum reports of oral dbol users show that the runs is a rare condition.

Here’s the five most important reasons to NOT use supplemental Testosterone as replacement for natural production:

  1. Supplemental Testosterone is the most powerful killer of your own natural production via the negative-feedback loop of HPTA downregulation per unit of anabolic activity. Supplemental Testosterone will shrink your balls and lower or end sperm production. Dbol in HRT doses won’t and you can still have excellent orgasms as I do - with plenty of thick white fluid production too ! :slight_smile: Yes, I’ve been testing once a week as part of the monitoring program. Other forum reports concur.

  2. Dbol has twice the anabolic activity and much weaker effects on the HPTA loop than Testosterone and thus you can keep most of your natural production by not exceeding 10mg taken once per day within an hour of waking up to overlap with the natural Testosterone release spike. My own production has hardly changed in over a month by the feel of it though I haven’t been blood-tested a second time.

The loop turns its ‘eyes’ away from sensing for a short time in the morning to avoid sabotaging itself. It chooses not to ‘see’ during the time when that Testosterone spike is released, or ‘see’ very little. So it’s a narrow timeslice when one can add a bit to that release without the loop seeing it and retrocompensating.

  1. Testosterone aromatizes into DHT much more than dbol does and at the dose required to produce the same positive effects as dbol causes far more hair loss. I have noticed zero hair loss and it’s been nearly a month since starting.

  2. Supplemental Testosterone can increase prostate size due to its 1:1 Anabolic:Androgenic ratio but dbol’s 2:1 ratio prevents this and can actually shrink overgrown prostates.

  3. Testosterone is unaffordably expensive due to its low potency and can only be used by injection, patch and nasal. Dbol is many times more potent so it’s highly economical, easily croses borders, hides easily, and can be used orally or any other route of administration. At the tiny dose used for HRT, even if taken orally it poses no liver threat if one is reasonable about alcohol and other liver-stressors. I take no alcohol or other liver stressors including caffeine.

Frankly, at 10mg or less per day moderate alcohol is perfectly safe for those without pre-existing liver disease or genetic family history of it. I haven’t found the victims and I’ve been searching forums for many months daily.

Very interesting thread, however I do not think this will get around the liver, if the compound is 17-AA it is hepatotoxic to some degree.

My (limited) understanding is if its methylated and in you it’s going to hit the liver, injectable winstrol definitely bypasses the first pass to the liver and yet is as (or almost?) liver toxic as when taken orally.

Those studies point to insufflation possibly being viable, which would be great to have an effective ROA without the pain in the ass(pun not intended) and associated costs and risks of injection with out liver toxicity

But even if this is an effective delivery system ideally seems like you need a potent powder with no methyl group to take advantage of most of the potential benefits, IMO it will not be a method for avoiding hepatotoxicity with 17-AA steroids in and of itself.

Taking NAC with this will solve liver toxicity issues. Combining a very good diet with lots of vitamins and minerals will make it ok right. We are also using smaller doses here.

Insufflation bypasses first-pass liver exposure completely - as good as a needle - in fact exactly equivalent regarding liver exposure so long as none drips down the throat. From Wikipedia:

“The technique is common for many recreational drugs and is also used for some entheogens. Nasal insufflation (snorting) is commonly used for many psychoactive drugs because it causes a much faster onset than orally, and bioavailability is usually, but not always, higher than orally. This bioavailability occurs due to the quick absorption of molecules into the bloodstream through the soft tissue in the mucous membrane of the sinus cavity and portal circulation bypass.”

“Some drugs have a higher rate of absorption, and are thus more effective in smaller doses, through this route. Prodrugs, drugs that are metabolized or activated by the liver (such as codeine), should not be insufflated, because they need to be metabolized by the liver to break down into the compounds that are active (drugs absorbed through the GI tract pass through the liver before entering the systemic circulation, where drugs which are insufflated are absorbed directly into the systemic circulation).”

The best part is that non-17-alpha-methylated steroids pass the nasal and sinus mucosa just as well as their methylated brethren so there is no longer a need to use the methylateds. I may switch to a non-methylated androgen soon.

The only issue so far with insufflation has been the cheap plastic straw’s sharp edges - a tiny bit of blood on the end each morning.

So I realized that an empty bic pen would work much better with its nicely rounded edges and found one in my storage last night.

After carefully drilling open its end and making sure the inside is smooth to prevent powder adhesion I did some test insertions and was pleased to note that the rounded edges completely prevent any bleeding.

I’m using this guy [ http://doesthispenwrite.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/a-papermate.jpg ] with the internals removed and end drilled out.

Over the last two days I have slowly come to the realization - from both theory and personal experience - that a very peculiar dynamic is occurring after insufflation of the fat-soluble dbol powder. A dynamic which is totally different from, say, the water-soluble cocaine (salts, not the freebase). The majority of steroid powders are lipophilic - fat-soluble - and are repelled by water. My dbol powder floats on top of water and won’t dissolve.

The brain is about 2/3 (66%) fatty tissue and surrounding nervous tissue along with the spinal cord is predominantly fatty tissue. After insufflaton and unlike cocaine [the water-soluble hydrochloride or other salts, not the freebase], the fat-soluble water-hating dbol dissolves in these tissues immediately and then - rather than diffusing into the watery bloodstream which repels it - instead the dbol travels along fatty projections of the brain - mainly the spinal cord and other nerves - directly to cells all over the body without ever entering the bloodstream. Medicine uses the partition coefficient (specifically, the LogP) - the ratio of a substance that dissolves in nonpolar solvent to that which dissolves in water - to categorize molecules.

For example, acetamide can be dissolved up to 2kg per liter of water and its value is -1.16.
Next, 1,4-Dichlorobenzene: its LogP is 3.37, almost equal to dbol’s 3.51. Only 105mg/liter will dissolve in water. Dbol dissolves even less in water and the watery bloodstream due to its higher LogP. Instead it travels along fatty nervous projections such as the spinal cord and diffuses from there into the body’s cells through myriad nerve projections, almost completely bypassing hepatic exposure.

This accounts for the peculiar 45-minute to one hour wait before main body effects begin, and also explains the strange electric feelings I get each time down the spine. In contrast, a water-soluble molecule like cocaine produces near-immediate effects when insufflated.

What this means when insufflating a methylated steroid - and especially in HRT cases like mine where half my androgen receptors are empty and hungry for ligands - is that gradual diffusion of the fatty steroid molecules into body tissues through fatty nervous projections rather than bloodstream circulation combined with all those empty receptors means that not only is the liver the last place dbol molecules end up rather than the first as with oral use, but also that there are precious few of them left to even arrive there.

Reference for dbol’s LogP: [ http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.6061.html ]

The crackhead in me decided to retest nasal dbol 7mg this morning at 9:09am.

Just to see if there is brain adaptation.

I’m avoiding all food/liquids and spitting out saliva until 10:30am for another day of testing.

This time I was finally smart enough to take 30g brown sugar first to prevent my usual morning low-blood sugar physical and mental symptoms which make it harder to sort out the feelings of incoming dbol.

It’s 10:07 and both the peculiar head effects - though thankfully about 90% less than the first day at this dose - and very strong body effects are manifesting including the usual hot sweaty palms and general body heat.

Right on the damn hour mark just exactly like the last two days: perfect consistency.

I’ve been carefully spitting out all saliva and not eating or drinking anything since dosing the dbol at 9:09am this morning.

I went a bit further this morning because I thought I tasted some Aspirin flavor on my tongue so I poured some dish detergent into my mouth and cleaned it out by swishing and spitting then rinsing.

Now the problem is that even though I rinsed out a lot, the leftover detergent taste on my tongue is so similar to the dbol Aspirin flavor that I can’t tell anymore if there’s any drippage.

It tastes gross but detergent is good at dissolving lipophilics to get them out of the mouth.

Whatever this nasal ROA does, for sure it delivers some incredible dose of dbol to the brain rather directly - achieving concentrations that no oral dosing or IM/IV injection could ever approach.

The text and icons on my screen - like the last three days - is ridiculously bright, insanely color-saturated and sharp. There was only a hint of this effect - maybe 5% - during the last three weeks of orally dosing the same 7mg dbol.

Those are even more additional improvements to the exact visual effects of my daily Oxiracetam dosing protocol which already cranks up visual color saturation and sharpness to a higher level than any other racetam.

This is unreal. It’s only been five more minutes but colour saturation in particular and visual sharpness also are increasing far past the highest level yesterday morning, which itself was higher than the first morning of nasal ROA.

It’s becoming distracting.

I just can’t believe the visual effects are so good and strong, and zero of the first day’s dizzines or other sides.

Body heat effects are going strong too and about equal to yesterday’s - so far.

Having extensive experience with nootropics - brain-function enhancing drugs such as the racetams (Piracetam, Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, Pramiracetam, etc.) and their visual effects… I’m blown away.

Nasal dbol has a ridiculously powerful - and cumulative - nootropic effect on the visual cortex at the least, and judging by my improved daily intellectual output other areas as well.

Just returned from a walk in foresty nature.

The visual sharpness, colour saturation and 3D processing are off the charts.

Admittedly, I am on the following nootropics as well:

Sunifiram: 25mg every 3 hours (6x per day)
Oxiracetam: 500mg every 3 hours (6x per day)
Pramiracetam: 275mg every 3 hours (6x per day)

But still, I’ve been on this program for months and never, never, never, never ever ever ever ever, EVER did visual effects come close to this point. Hell, not even the olde days of highdosing Oxiracetam at up to 2g/3hr. come close.

The dbol is multiplying the power - NO, squaring or perhaps cubing the power of visual effects I normally get from the racetams I’m taking. Likely the Oxiracetam is responsible for such intense coloration.

This completely validates my experiences with the declining power of racetams since Summer 2008 as my natural Testosterone level continued to drop in parallel with the low-T symptoms. I was forced to switch from Piracetam to Aniracetam, then to Oxiracetam, Pramiracetam and finally Sunifiram to maintain effects and prevent daytime tiredness and sleepiness.

The initial visual colour and sharpness increases produced by these racetam nootropics also faded in lock-step synchrony with the worsening low-T symptoms.

The racetams require normal androgenic receptor activation within the brain to function correctly and providing that activation makes them roar like jet engines.

I noticed the 3D depth effect yesterday but today it’s become stronger. I mean that objects even far away stand out like paper cut-outs - I can see the depth effect easily between two trees hundreds of feet away.

Chromed sufaces like faucets, etc. are shining so intensely that the only comparison is to LSD or shrooms but without any visual distortions. Just pure 100% clean enhancement with zero sides.

Over the course of a mere twenty minutes at the one-hour mark my entire visual field became saturated by intense colour and sharpness with no edge-ring or other artifacting. The images on my monitor have turned into a splendid palette of brilliantly colorful hues.

It feels exactly like my visual cortex was upgraded from Model-T to 747. Same as yesterday but stronger. Same as the day before that but stronger still again. I’m starting to wonder when it will stop increasing.

Hell, even a lower dose like 2-3mg would likely work wonders since the effect is cumulative and building each day. At such a low dose dbol would work as an almost pure nootropic by the nasal route with so little spillover into the rest of the body that both anabolic and androgenic effects would be minimal to nonexistent, making it suitable for wide use as a nootropic - even by women. Yes, at such a tiny intranasal dose of 2-3mg I expect both noticeable nootropic effects and such limited outward perfusion that it won’t cause problems for them at all thanks to the lipophilic character of dbol et al. and its tendency to stay within the CNS due to hydrophobicity - at least at low doses.

I’ve got a study to back the safety of microdose nasal androgen for women too, though their study targets sexual dysfunction in old (premenopausal) women using dbol’s father Testosterone:

2011/09: Trimel: An Open-label, Single and Multiple Application of Intranasal Testosterone Gel (TBS-2) in Healthy Premenopausal Female Subjects at Three Dose Levels

Truthfully, it feels like I just opened the door into a carnivalesque world of undiscovered countries. It’s so overwhelming that all I can do is stare in quiet awe.

Intranasal travels amazingly well into the brain and starts fixing things superfast. Things that I had forgotten I’d lost over the years.

Somebody else - especially someone with low T - has got to try this. Preferably stacked with some Oxiracetam. It feels like I won some billion-dollar lottery.

The mind enhancements are so strong that I’m forgetting my original reason for taking dbol. The anabolic effects are nice but they’re a sideshow. The avoidance of first-pass is nice but not necessary at HRT doses. My loose stool is solidifying but I’m a rare case and it was never a pain just an inconvenience. All of these are good reasons to switch from oral to nasal but none can compare to the mind enhancements.

All the rest of the benefits are a sideshow compared to this.

I’m having difficulty holding back tears.

It is possible to optimize the ratio of brain to body repletion effects by splitting the morning dbol HRT dose between oral and nasal for each individual’s needs.

In my case, the same 7mg taken orally produced sufficient anabolic effects to reverse the physical fatigue and other body symptoms of low-T, but it had only minor therapeutic effects on cognition. Raising the dose was not an option.

Due to either poor blood-brain-barrier permeability, brain androgen receptor insensitivity, abnormally low brain androgen receptor count or any combination of the three, the correct body dose of HRT dbol could not achieve anywhere near optimal mind results.

Now that the direct-to-brain nasal route of administration is available it is easily possible to adjust the ratio to achieve complete optimality of effect on both organ systems. The brain - being behind the blood-brain-barrier - is almost an entirely separate system from the rest of the body that oral dbol does not penetrate so well due to the majority latching onto body androgen receptors. Raising the oral dose to compensate can cause increases in side effects and liver stress rather than achieve desireable results.

Lol… This is a crock of shit. To suggest everyone should follow you down this path is just fucking dumb…

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It’s my goal and fervent hope to move HRT practice from the 19th century to the 20th and maybe - Lord willing - to the 21st. My audience is those whose HRT treatments are unavailable or failed; those whom the medical Establishment betrayed. Those that disagree - those who say there is only one hormone suitable for HRT and only two ROAs for delivering it as the medical Establishment does, well, I have no words for them. It’s a waste of time speaking to them because their ears are shut and minds are closed.

Considering the high percentage of men posting on this forum and others that they can’t achieve good results on the single medically-approved HRT therapy of TRT, I think that critics should reserve their words until after they have some personal experience using alternative androgens and/or alternative routes of administration for HRT.

Official HRT practice has remained stagnant for decades and has failed to make use of the vast array of options available to create good results for patients - the huge list of androgens and the new methods of administration and timing. Instead it continues to blunder about like a bull in a china shop, achieving successes only by luck and leaving a long trail of disappointed patients.

HRT needs a breath of fresh air and new minds with new ideas and solutions. I am under no illusions regarding the number of minds that will eventually have to be opened up, and the amount of hardheaded, irrational opposition to advancement.

Quote of the day: “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”