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Instinctive Dieting: Egotistical or Arrogant?


#21

I make most of my meals from scratch, and I add up calories while I produce the recipe. Then I know that I have a 8 cup pot of stew for example with a total of 2200 calories. I have to count calories though, but I don’t have to count macros. I pretty much have a natural flow of wanting more carbs or more fat and protein remains constant.

If I go to a restaurant I make my best guess and move on. Unless you eat the same thing from the same restaurant several times a week, I think the over and under estimates balance out.


#22

I saw somewhere that a chipotle bowl can have 300 calories more than advertised if your server is generous with the scoop of rice and guac.


#23

I realize that the wording of this could be off-putting. These terms were chosen to exemplify a way of thinking, and not so much to get you or anyone else to make a character judgement. I will try to clarify what I meant here so this angle can be considered for the sake of the discussion…

In a traditional sense, we refer to Arrogant or Egotistical in terms of a person’s personality. If you think about in this context, the “boiled down” definition would be…

Arrogant = “I’m right, you’re wrong…end of story.” In other words, I know what I know, and your attempts to interject new information into my knowledge of the subject are futile…

Egotistical = “I’m the best that there is and everyone should agree with me!” In other words, I believe that I am or have accomplished something great, and that that makes me somebody, but I’m not happy with feeling that way on my own… I need someone to corroborate my feelings, or validate me. If you do not validate me, I will become arrogant and validate myself…

Now take those same meanings and apply them to an individual’s thought process. We all usually display thought patterns that are one or the other…Arrogant meaning that I am so confident in what I know, that I will not seek to “prove” this knowledge any further. Egotistical meaning that I am very confident in what I know, but I feel the need to validate that knowledge any time it comes into question, or any time that knowledge could be altered by outlying factors.

Example…If you and I went to the same gym and you came up to me and asked me “How ya been man?” And then I replied, “I’ve been better. I haven’t slept in three weeks!” What is your first thought?

If you are someone who approaches the thought process arrogantly, you might think, “That’s impossible. You’d be dead if you did not sleep for 3 weeks.” If you approach more on the egotistical side, you might think. “He can’t mean that literally because he’d be dead. I need further information to clarify the his underlying meaning of this phrase, because it doesn’t jive with what I know to be true.”…

See what I mean? The terms were meant in this context to easier illustrate critical versus literal thinking. They are NOT at all meant to be in any way derogatory. There are some people who can be Arrogant or Egotistical personality wise, but on the other hand, almost everyone forms their thought process along the lines of one of these definitions. The difference is being able to suppress any outgoing emotions or actions that would put them in that category as far as their personality is concerned. I hope this makes sense?

Now to clarify the point I was trying to make concerning Arrogant vs. Egotistical when it comes to my thinking on diet…Arrogant meaning that I don’t need to verify my intake. I KNOW what I’m eating. (Which is a valid standpoint and doesn’t mean that the person is in fact arrogant). Egotistical meaning that I know what I’m eating, but I want to verify the value of these foods, if nothing more than to just prove myself right. Again, not an “egomaniac”, just more of an egotistical style of thinking in this context.

For me personally, the arrogant style of thinking does not serve me well because I know I am prone to errors in judgment when it comes to food. There are too many tiny variables that could add up to very big deviations over the course of a week. For me, as someone who is not really trying to gain or bulk, but rather keep what I have while cutting as much fat as possible, those errors can be critical.


#24

How come people can’t just go by feel? If you eat healthy, real foods when you’re hungry then what’s the problem? Sure, if you want to compete in BB competitions or are a Fruit of the Loom model, maybe you need to know the exact weight of that apple, but how is this a healthy/good way to live for the rest of us?

I notice on days I have a very hard workout, I eat more. On days that are rest or easy workouts, I eat less because I’m less hungry. Once you have been training awhile, I don’t see how this doesn’t just happen naturally.


#25

That said, I think eating too much fake crap and processed foods (yes, I’d include pre-workouts with artificial sweeteners/colors, powdered proteins with sucralose, diet sodas, “low fat” dairy, “reduced sugar” snacks, etc…) work against your natural ability to regulate food intake and calories.


#26

That is probably half the members here in these forums. And if they arent FOTL models they could be.


#27

Do you think it would be a problem, overall, as long as you vary your carb source? Sometimes rice, sometimes potatoes, sometimes a starchy vegetable like butternut squash?

But I can see how it wouldn’t work for some. To be fair, there is more to what he is teaching. That outline is just the starting point. For some people, it would be perfectly adequate, and they’d start moving towards the physique that they want. It might not work forever, and that’s when you progress to the next level which could be something as simple as only having rice post-workout.

Great suggestion. Especially for carb source such as rice, quinoa, oatmeal, etcetera that really fill out the cup. Might be a bit weird with a sweet potato unless you first chop it up? I find that for most products you can just google what a cup is in grams, so if you have a standard cup then you can do that conversion later on if you have the need.

I can honestly eat in kilos worth of food without making an effort. There are a lot of diet articles on here that say you can have an infinite amount of vegetables, but I can easily go through a kilo of carrots, a kilo of pickles, half a kilo of mixed greens, together with meat, nuts/avocado/cheese/what have you and a more traditional carb source and still have room for dessert. And I’m pretty small in stature.

And I eat pretty clean, the processed items in my diet are EAAs, maltodextrin, and whey.


#28

If you look at the older school bodybuilders they didn’t dwell on weighing and measuring food. Why? No doubt because they were instinctive: they knew what to do in the gym to build muscle, and they knew what to eat to achieve that goal.

When you devise a complex diet plan, e.g. x6 daily feedings; 25-30 PRO each meal, etc, etc. You obviously need to be a bit more meticulous. But there are plenty of examples of people who eat instinctively to achieve their’s. Menno Henselmans posted some stuff about getting to 8-9% BF through ad libitum dieting. Like most stuff in life, it’s not rocket science - unless you decide to make it like that.


#29

To be fair though, most of the old school BBs were running cruise doses that most here would consider mild cycles, and they lived in the gym for 4-6 hours a day. Diet, or should I say bean counting, doesn’t come into play as much when you’re expending 6000 cals a day. The only thing you really worry about there is what type of foods your eating and how they’re going to effect your lipid profiles, not so much the total caloric value as long as it stays high enough. That being said though, even the old school guys would take one of two approaches when it came time to start cutting…

  1. Add in insane amounts of cardio and change the type of cycle they are running, or…
  2. Start counting calories and macros.

Or both right?

Do you think that the same overall approach some of those guys took would be very effective for the average Joe just trying to be as healthy as he could with a full time day job and a family? I’m not super convinced that it would, but I’m not an expert either…that’s why I put this topic up for discussion to you guys! Lol


#30

I spent a bit of time reading work by folks like Ellington Darden, who shadowed Arthur Jones for years, and the nutrition aspect was very low key. Look even at Frank Zane. His macros/calories were very modest and could have been easily judged through portion size, etc.


#31

I haven’t read any of their works but would you concede the possibility that it may have been that they weighed things for some period of time and then internalised it? After seeing say 300g of potatoes enough times you’d probably be able to judge semi-accurately how a serving of potatoes weigh because you have a strong frame of reference.


#32

I agree and this speaks precisely to the original post. And I would argue that this is neither ego nor arrogance. It is learned through constant repetition.


#33

#34

Just dropping in for a moment to share an observation based on personal experience and observation of these forums.

In the calories in/calories out equation the vast majority of people go straight to less calories in and very few put much or any emphasis on calories out.

I think it has a lot to do with basic daily activities, being tied to a desk, and the efficiency of the human body when it comes to burning more calories. It’s pretty tough. Even just a few hundred per day.