T Nation

Inno-Sport Questions

[quote]L-Dizzle wrote:
Back again.

I’m thinking about doing workouts consisting of ISO’s and OI’s. This is because generally I lack strength, and I haven’t done anything but up and down (PIM) reps in any lift in a long, long while.
What do you think?
This would address my need for absolute strength, would bring a new type of training stimulus, and prepare me for future implements of Neuro-Dynamics work.
This is all still in the general preparatory stage.[/quote]

If you are in a GPP stage (and following inno-sport), then you should not be addressing absolute strength. A GPP stage will address speed and strength endurance. Also, OI’s will probably not do much (directly) for absolute strength because of the light weight you will have to use initially to learn the correct technique.

If you truly want to do GPP and build a base for improved sport performance, I would alternate strength endurance and speed endurance sessions. You may be doing this, but it is not apparent from your post. The ISOs and OIs will be fine for the strength endurance session. I would perform exercises like ISO subscap pullups (top position), ISO bench in the stretch/bottom position, and other exercises that are somewhat prehab/rehab in nature. Use this time to treat any previous injury and work to prevent future injury. I would then perform line hops, speed hops, sprints, etc. for the speed endurance session.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
L-Dizzle wrote:
Back again.

I’m thinking about doing workouts consisting of ISO’s and OI’s. This is because generally I lack strength, and I haven’t done anything but up and down (PIM) reps in any lift in a long, long while.
What do you think?
This would address my need for absolute strength, would bring a new type of training stimulus, and prepare me for future implements of Neuro-Dynamics work.
This is all still in the general preparatory stage.

ISO’s are a great choice. If you have the book, he talks about ISO’s at different joint angles and their different uses. I had success with OI’s as well, just note that the first couple of times you do them you will have to really drop the weight substantially in order to get the movements down.

For DUR An-2, I think PIM, ISO and OI work well, for An-1 I like PIM, PLIO and MIO.[/quote]

I don’t have the book, all my information is from the website and from what I’ve learned here in the few Inno threads. Could you tell me a little bit about them?

I was thinking of using them in the CJC.

Did it take long for you to learn the movements?

[quote]climbon wrote:
L-Dizzle wrote:
Back again.

I’m thinking about doing workouts consisting of ISO’s and OI’s. This is because generally I lack strength, and I haven’t done anything but up and down (PIM) reps in any lift in a long, long while.
What do you think?
This would address my need for absolute strength, would bring a new type of training stimulus, and prepare me for future implements of Neuro-Dynamics work.
This is all still in the general preparatory stage.

If you are in a GPP stage (and following inno-sport), then you should not be addressing absolute strength. A GPP stage will address speed and strength endurance. Also, OI’s will probably not do much (directly) for absolute strength because of the light weight you will have to use initially to learn the correct technique.

If you truly want to do GPP and build a base for improved sport performance, I would alternate strength endurance and speed endurance sessions. You may be doing this, but it is not apparent from your post. The ISOs and OIs will be fine for the strength endurance session. I would perform exercises like ISO subscap pullups (top position), ISO bench in the stretch/bottom position, and other exercises that are somewhat prehab/rehab in nature. Use this time to treat any previous injury and work to prevent future injury. I would then perform line hops, speed hops, sprints, etc. for the speed endurance session.[/quote]

You’re right, I lost focus. So I’d do ISO’s and OI’s for one workout. Earliery you suggested doing the other workout on the track, and I see you mentioning sprints and hops here too, so I’ll try to make a workout out of them.

Thanks for the help.

Just a quick update, I did a workout yesterday, consisted of barbell walks, ISO GHR’s OI bulgarian split squats and ISO calf raises in the stretch position.
I did 3 rounds of the GHR and BSS, then noticed fatigue kicking in so I moved on.

[quote]L-Dizzle wrote:
Just a quick update, I did a workout yesterday, consisted of barbell walks, ISO GHR’s OI bulgarian split squats and ISO calf raises in the stretch position.
I did 3 rounds of the GHR and BSS, then noticed fatigue kicking in so I moved on.[/quote]

That seems good to me and actually sounds pretty similar to how I would do it. If you are doing the calf raises, I would also do them in the peak contraction position, aka with your foot fully extended.

He talks about CJC vs. PAP in his book and when to use ISOs for them. I think he gets a little too complicated but I suppose that isn’t always a bad thing. From personal experience, here’s some ISO’s that I’ve found to be most effective.

Bench Press: >10 seconds, just barely off the chest.

BSS: 10-30 seconds, deep as humanly possible while still keeping the torso fully erect.

Pull-Ups: I like two consecutive ISO holds, ~15 seconds at the top position (PAP) and about 15 seconds with elbows at 90 degrees.

Squats: Any work bracket works, I like just below parallel as the position to hold it in.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
L-Dizzle wrote:
Just a quick update, I did a workout yesterday, consisted of barbell walks, ISO GHR’s OI bulgarian split squats and ISO calf raises in the stretch position.
I did 3 rounds of the GHR and BSS, then noticed fatigue kicking in so I moved on.

That seems good to me and actually sounds pretty similar to how I would do it. If you are doing the calf raises, I would also do them in the peak contraction position, aka with your foot fully extended.

He talks about CJC vs. PAP in his book and when to use ISOs for them. I think he gets a little too complicated but I suppose that isn’t always a bad thing. From personal experience, here’s some ISO’s that I’ve found to be most effective.

Bench Press: >10 seconds, just barely off the chest.

BSS: 10-30 seconds, deep as humanly possible while still keeping the torso fully erect.

Pull-Ups: I like two consecutive ISO holds, ~15 seconds at the top position (PAP) and about 15 seconds with elbows at 90 degrees.

Squats: Any work bracket works, I like just below parallel as the position to hold it in. [/quote]

Thanks, good to hear that. I’ll add the peak contraction there too. Is PAP same as peak contraction? I just can’t remember a thing about PAP. What does it stand for?

What kind of stance have you used for squats? I don’t know about you, but I’ll probably have to improve my hip flexor flexibility/mobility further, as I reckon they’d be doing most of the work if I was to do ISO squats.

Have you ever done ISO pullups at the stretch position? I believe I had some gains a few years back when I did pullups at just above the stretch position.

[quote]L-Dizzle wrote:
Thanks, good to hear that. I’ll add the peak contraction there too. Is PAP same as peak contraction? I just can’t remember a thing about PAP. What does it stand for?[/quote]

Yeah it is the same. It stands for Prime Anatomical Position.

[quote]
What kind of stance have you used for squats? I don’t know about you, but I’ll probably have to improve my hip flexor flexibility/mobility further, as I reckon they’d be doing most of the work if I was to do ISO squats.[/quote]

I vary my stance constantly when I do squats. I try to go with a fairly wide stance when I do ISO, I just feel like it makes me more stable and puts the most stress on my glutes. I have pretty good hip mobility though.

[quote]
Have you ever done ISO pullups at the stretch position? I believe I had some gains a few years back when I did pullups at just above the stretch position.[/quote]

Yes and that definitly works. I like PLIO (slow lowering) work for the pull-ups though. Also I like a brief hold at the very top position, followed by a brief relaxation and a “catch” at 90 degrees. I suppose Inno-Sport would call that an FDA pull-up.

Jt,

What kind of results have you noticed with pullups? strength, mass, speed…?

I also remember trying “negative pullups” once, got some amazing soreness in my lats, biceps and abs the following day. I used to be fairly good with up and down pullups when I did them on a regular basis, but I haven’t worked on them in a long time.

Well, when I was really training them hard, I went from being able to do about 2 or 3 wide-grip pull-ups with a little kip to them to 5 or 6 with 35# attached from the dead hang. Lately I’ve been concentrating more on squat and bench so I’ve been doing pull-ups as a secondary exercise, but I think I’m going to start focusing on them again soon.

Climbon~

Explain the mini tramp theory, please…

J

[quote]Jumanji wrote:
Climbon~

Explain the mini tramp theory, please…

J[/quote]

Not sure exactly what you are asking. Let me know and I will answer to the best of my ability. How are your camps going?

On the edge of expanding too quickly… so scary, but well. Up at 4am, just got home at 10:15pm… daily. I have about 12 more teams coming on line in July, and another 12-16 in August. I really need trainers, so I am going to post on NSCA soon.

Need former skill athletes over big guys and jock sniffers though, and that can be tough to find at times.

I owe some guys from here stuff, but literally cannot go get myself to the dentist right now.

The question is this:

I have seen the mini tramps used, but never invested in them. My sessions are 75-90 minutes, and my progressions are pretty set. I constantly buy stuff to add drills that fit in my system, but the basic progressions are all set…

Why use a mini tramp… protocols, etc.

There is a guy down here who uses them for energy ssytem work, and claims that 90 degree squat “runs” for time really help train reactiveness in the PF area…

Your thoughts…?

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Well, when I was really training them hard, I went from being able to do about 2 or 3 wide-grip pull-ups with a little kip to them to 5 or 6 with 35# attached from the dead hang. Lately I’ve been concentrating more on squat and bench so I’ve been doing pull-ups as a secondary exercise, but I think I’m going to start focusing on them again soon.[/quote]

Ok then, thanks for answering. We’ll see how I progress with them, though they’re not a primary concern of mine right now.

Jumanji, thanks for jumping in. I see you’re busy, so I appreciate it.

[quote]Jumanji wrote:
On the edge of expanding too quickly… so scary, but well. Up at 4am, just got home at 10:15pm… daily. I have about 12 more teams coming on line in July, and another 12-16 in August. I really need trainers, so I am going to post on NSCA soon.

Need former skill athletes over big guys and jock sniffers though, and that can be tough to find at times.

I owe some guys from here stuff, but literally cannot go get myself to the dentist right now.

The question is this:

I have seen the mini tramps used, but never invested in them. My sessions are 75-90 minutes, and my progressions are pretty set. I constantly buy stuff to add drills that fit in my system, but the basic progressions are all set…

Why use a mini tramp… protocols, etc.

There is a guy down here who uses them for energy ssytem work, and claims that 90 degree squat “runs” for time really help train reactiveness in the PF area…

Your thoughts…?[/quote]

I will agree that it does train reactivity and they are very grueling. It could easily be substituted in for another exercise and may help prevent/overcome boredom. I don’t think they (mini-tramp sprints, etc.) are absolutely necessary, but they are beneficial and are very different. Another benefit is the lack of impact. The mini-tramps are also inexpensive. I got mine from Wal-Mart for around $20.

I know that you have your own system and I am sure that you could easily incorporate the mini-tramp.

Question about the mini-tramp sprints:

Are they done running in place on the trampoline the whole time, or is it squats on the tramp followed by an ordinary sprint on grass/track?

Climbon~

Thanks for the input.

I do line jumps in a full squat position, etc.

Besides for helping with reactivity, they really help a kid with converting “squat strength” to atually performing in a low position.

This is actually one of the biggest questions I get: how to get the kids to play lower, and / or how to free up hips.

Besides for all the dynamic mobility stuff we do, we really work on moving down the entire force curve (as DB does) in those deep angles.

This has really helped me with kids who play high. Dynamic strength with appropriate speed and force in the low angles, coupled with dynamic flexibility.

Trampoline work sounds like it would be really good as part of my energy system circuits. Maybe it’s time to head to Walmart…

The only scary thing is I know that my insurance poo-poo’s trampolines and any sort of bands… but I use bands already (only Jumpstretch) for drive phase work.

What are the exercises you are using on the tramp, and times associated with these exercises?

Thanks.

J

[quote]Jumanji wrote:
Climbon~

Thanks for the input.

I do line jumps in a full squat position, etc.

Besides for helping with reactivity, they really help a kid with converting “squat strength” to atually performing in a low position.

This is actually one of the biggest questions I get: how to get the kids to play lower, and / or how to free up hips.

Besides for all the dynamic mobility stuff we do, we really work on moving down the entire force curve (as DB does) in those deep angles.

This has really helped me with kids who play high. Dynamic strength with appropriate speed and force in the low angles, coupled with dynamic flexibility.

Very interesting stuff. What are line jumps?

Earth~

Line jumps are the simplest exercise going. Imagine a line between your feet. Hop Left Hop Right over line. Spped and number of reps is key. Also, keeping the foot dorsiflexed is emphasized.

Beginners: Standing
Intermediate: 45 Degree Bend -> Parellel Squat Holding Partner’s Hand for balance
Advanced: Full Squat

Left Right, Front Back, Diagonal, etc…

Very Low force reactive exercise…

But the full squat position helps athletes get used to moving dynamically in a low squat position.

Doing deep squats helps with flexibility much the same way as toe touches do… basically they help for non athletes.

Athletes need toe touches at many different leg angles, with movement, etc.

Squats help with flexibility if all you do is move the pelvis directly up and down without ab/adduction in a deep position, without rate (flexibility IS rate specific…squats are SLOW!!), without rotation, etc…

So yes, slow hip mobility exercise are the most basic way to teach dynamic movement… to loosen hips, etc… but it is just the first step…

Hope this made sense. Have to drive across town for 3 sessions…see ya!!

J

[quote]Jumanji wrote:
Climbon~

Thanks for the input.

I do line jumps in a full squat position, etc.

Besides for helping with reactivity, they really help a kid with converting “squat strength” to atually performing in a low position.

This is actually one of the biggest questions I get: how to get the kids to play lower, and / or how to free up hips.

Besides for all the dynamic mobility stuff we do, we really work on moving down the entire force curve (as DB does) in those deep angles.

This has really helped me with kids who play high. Dynamic strength with appropriate speed and force in the low angles, coupled with dynamic flexibility.

Trampoline work sounds like it would be really good as part of my energy system circuits. Maybe it’s time to head to Walmart…

The only scary thing is I know that my insurance poo-poo’s trampolines and any sort of bands… but I use bands already (only Jumpstretch) for drive phase work.

What are the exercises you are using on the tramp, and times associated with these exercises?

Thanks.

J[/quote]

Primarily the low squat sprints that you have mentioned. I have also done some line hops and just jumps. I would suggest starting the sprints for 12-15 seconds and increasing the time as you can. They are deceptively hard and tiring.

You need to write an article and post it here for us all to learn from your methods.