Not sure if this can really be answered per se, but here’s my question. Can different protocols but with the same total weekly dosage affect gym gains and muscle hypertrophy? Example is: 200 mg testosterone weekly total. Will doing 28.6 mg daily vs 57 mg every other day vs 85.7 mg every 3 days vs 114.3 mg every 4 days all the way up to injecting 200 mg once a week make any difference? Would larger bolus shots have a bigger impact, or small daily doses would be exactly the same?
I’m no pharmacology expert, but from my own experience my muscle development only started properly once I switched to twice a week. And it happened just through living rather than working out. I was 13 months into treatment so without any real control, there’s obviously no saying it wouldn’t have happened after that length of time on T anyway. I personally don’t think it would have.
That said, it’s pretty well accepted that different protocols achieve different things for the same person - that is, the same dose but split up can have wide variations in effectiveness. Also I believe higher frequencies of the same dose generally lead to higher levels (to a point).
So to answer your question, I believe it can absolutely make a difference, but which way is likely specific to the individual.
Yeah I’m on 34 mg daily now. Just curious if that dosage is enough to maintain the gains I was def making at 88 mg every 3 days.
Nope. Not unless you’re really weirdly put together.
That would apparently be me.
100% agreed both points.
My thought is if we already know that injection frequency can manifest with various mental and physical effects - making for a more/less effective TRT treatment - why not also muscle mass?
Absolutely. For example one of the physiologic effects is E2 varying with injection frequency. E2 is anabolic, and therefore it could be hypothesised that the frequency with the highest resultant E2 may be the most anabolic.
So then injecting daily 28.5 mg would not create the best anabolic environment say compared to injecting 100 mg every 3.5 days?
Perhaps, you would have to try it. There are so many variables at play and we are taking so many shots in the dark its impossible to predict for a given individual.
TRT in the normal range isn’t by far the best means of building muscle compare to other Injectable routes. That said, when combined with good diet and exercise most will see some physical improvements like more lean muscle/less fat.
I took injections for a while first once a week then twice a week. Never did really see any noticeable difference both ways muscle gain wise. I did feel better with twice a week though lower high peak helped reduce water retention and gave a more even feel day to day.
I’m on the scrotum cream now twice a day so I don’t get the “high peak“ like I did with injection. However, I stay within a few hundred pts total-T at high normal 24/7 with no big trough towards week/injection period end.
So far haven’t seen a noticeable change in lean muscle mass between both injections/cream with similar overall T level maintained. Still early into using the cream so am curious myself the end results compared to injections I used before.
Personally, I feel stronger, have more endurance, and gain more muscle weight and am more pumped when a bit of water retention is present.*
*I am low BF% naturally and this may play a large part in the above, for me.
I gained more muscle when I had water retention myself because I was at a higher T level. I was reverse though it seemed to reduce my endurance noticeable but strength was really good.
When I lowered dosage and water retention disappeared in 7-10 day holly cow I was lean muscle like I had never been.
Guess it was there the whole time but hidden from water retention So I didn’t notice it I had been working out extra hard plus eating well for 8-10 weeks at that point. I do think getting my T levels up from the low point where I needed TRT helped me get results,
When your T level is 200 it’s really hard to put lean muscle mass on I killed my self working out will only average gains. Had to work 2-3 times as hard as a normal guy my age with normal T levels.
What I still need to know is if 200 mg a week split in any way changes anything. Daily, EOD, E3.5D, E4D, E5D, or once a week. I don’t have a problem gaining muscle. I was big even pre trt With levels of 360 ng/dl. Doing 88 mg every 3 days was definitely getting me big fast after a 7 month injury layoff. I was back in 2 months. Even bigger then before. But now wondering if 28.5 mg daily is good enough. Currently not working out due to gym closures. So it’s hard to tell.
TRT added mass to my shoulders and chest. I was running 300 or less test level before TRT for quite a few years. I was not a little guy before, I am even further from little now. The frequency is very unlikely to make any difference whatsoever. The higher test levels will almost certainly put some meat on you, as well as some water weight.
In theory it should be the same because it would average out Would it not? You would experience less water retention though without as high peak at one point. You also won’t have as low T curve vs once a week shot also.
One possible drawback with smaller daily injections is less estrogen. Estrogen is extremely anabolic even more so then testosterone. As far as water retention I never experienced any on any dosage or protocol.
I inject 28.6mg daily and my E2 stays at around 80. I haven’t noticed any difference really in muscle gain at any injection frequency. I definitely feel better personally on daily shots which makes me more motivated to go to the gym consistently so there’s that. Whatever frequency makes you feel best will likely give you some advantage. It definitely can’t hurt. If gaining muscle is your main concern you can do 500mg for 12 weeks and look like a different person but I wouldn’t even consider anything like that until you have found your optimal TRT protocol and have stayed on it for a while.
Over the years the thinking has been:
- E2 bad, reduce at all costs to near zero levels
- Don’t control E2. Ignore it. Leave it alone.
But what happens if its driven too low \ crashed due to protocol? (not AI!!). I have yet to hear a single person complain of E2 crash due to dailies. Yet I have horrible crash like feelings when doing daily IM, less so but still bad with daily SubQ. E3D or greater eliminates the crash feelings while keeping the awesomeness.
Some of us may be poor aromatisers \ require higher E2 than dailies may provide!
Back to topic, E2 is extremely anabolic are therefore I hypothesize less frequent injections -> higher E2 -> greater hypertrophy
What is your E2 level when you did a daily IM protocol and crashed your E2? I’m guessing you didn’t get it checked. For the record the first 8 weeks of doing a daily protocol I felt like crap before I start feeling the best I’ve felt on TRT.
The highest my E2 has been was on a daily protocol (T as well).