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Injecting Mon/Wed//Fri. When to Draw Labs So I'm in Range?

Long story short.(summary)…I have been on TRT for 6 months now. I had many symptoms and went to a men’s clinic and both my TT and FT came back low. I took this information to my PCP and he started me on a 200mg weekly dose of Testosterone Cypionate. I decided to follow some of the information i read on this forum and split that weekly dose into 3 smaller doses (MWF Protocol) to avoid all the issues associated with a large single weekly dose. After 8 weeks I had my labs drawn on trough day (Monday Morning) and my levels came back way to high TT 1600 (240 - 950) and FT 100 (9 - 30) .

During this time all of my symptoms went away, i had no side affects whatsoever and i felt great. Regardless of any of that my doctor decided to cut the dose in half to 100mg weekly. I followed the same MWF 3 dose protocol, and after 8 weeks had my labs drawn again on a Monday morning. My labs came back with TT 1100 (240 - 950) and FT 44 (9 - 30). During that time i felt very similar to when i was on 200mg, not much changed, still all of my symptoms were gone and i felt great.

Again, regardless of any of this my doctor thinks my levels are to high and referred me to a specialist (Endocrinologist). That visit was a nightmare, the specialist thinks i would be better off stopping my TRT treatment and trying to get my natural levels back and some more nonsense. I completely disagreed and told him i would not be following up with his office. I reached out to my PCP and told him that if his intention is to take away my treatment because of the specialists notes, i will not have any other option but to go back to the men’s clinic for treatment. He asked me to schedule an appointment with him and put in another order for labs.

My experience so far with 2 primary care doctors and an endocrinologists is that they don’t listen and they don’t care about how you are feeling. What the labs show is most important to them. As many of you know, when it comes to TRT, the labs are not everything. Some of us feel good at TT 600 and others 1500. Some of us can get away with taking 100mg weekly and others need 250mg to achieve the same results and get rid of symptoms. At 100mg split into 3 doses, i feel normal, i have no symptoms and i want to stay here. I don’t want to have to go to the men’s clinic for treatment.

Questions: What day should i get my labs drawn to fall within this 240 - 950 range. I thought i was doing the right thing by getting it drawn on on Monday mornings (trough day) before my injection. Friday morning is my last shot of the week, so by Monday morning that is 72 hours. I’m not sure if i should wait until Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, or a full week on Friday without an injection and draw labs. I just have a feeling that if he sees that I’m in range, he is less likely to lower my dose or discontinue my treatment.

Thank you

RESULTS: My last injection was Friday, i decided to skip my Monday injection and test on Wednesday morning (5 days and 120 hours after last shot).

TT: 987 (240 - 950)
FT: 35 (9.0 - 30)

Why are you afraid of trying a lower dose again? What was he trying to lower it to? My dose has been lowered 3x due to out of range labs. I feel fine and I’m 2/3 of range.

There isn’t much of a trough injecting that often. If trying to game the system, you already know the answer. You’ll need to skip injections and it’ll be somewhat of a guess. Come back too low, and he’ll know what you did. Or, he should know.

I’m happy about that. This is why TRT practices exist. Ultimately, that is your answer and if money (insurance coverage) isn’t an issue, I’d be there already. Good luck.

50mg weekly is what the endo suggested before getting completely off. I don’t want to go through lowering it, and then possibly experiencing symptoms and having to fight to get back to where I’m at now. It’s as simple as I feel good, I have no symptoms or side affects and let’s leave it there.

100mg to 50mg seems a bit extreme. If you feel fine at 100mg you might feel fine at 90mg and still be near the top of the range but not ever. As already mentioned you could game the system and just skip an injection and maybe get tested on Tuesday or Wednesday.

I’d skip an entire week. You can trial this on your own and get basic labs done out of pocket to see where that puts you. Should at least give you an idea whether to go longer or shorter

Also. Further proof doctors are idiots. No offense to the few that aren’t idiots.

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You are still out of range, and so he thinks your dose is too high. You SHOULD feel great at a dose that’s actually higher than what you need, so feeling great is no surprise. You could go to weekly injections for a while and your trough will drop. You could all on your own cut to 90 a week and see whaer it puts you. If it gets you close or in range, then he will likely stop harassing you about it. Your free T is high too, so it’s not like the dose is too low and he’s trying to cut you off at the nuts. If that doesn’t work, go private.

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I agree that the cut from 100mg to 50mg is extreme, and that i why i prefer not to go that route. My appointment is on 9/14, so i don’t have time to test out my own labs or really play with my dose until then. I’m thinking this Friday the (9/4) will be my last injection, and I’ll wait until Wednesday morning (9/9) to draw labs. I don’t really know how much lower my labs will be, but if they were 1100 on Monday morning, i would assume that they should drop within range by Wednesday morning (48 hours later). I understand what I’m trying to do is wrong, but i feel like is necessary for me to maintain the balance i have achieved. I have no problem lowering my dose down if something feels off, but i want to have the option of increasing it again if necessary, and if they cut it to 50mg I’ll be stuck. I guess we will see what the labs show next Wednesday.

Thanks for the input

When you’re on a MWF protocol, is there really any significance to peak and trough levels? I assume once you reach a steady state, those spikes and dips are negligible.

For example if my last shot is on Friday, would Monday levels be considered my peak or trough? My labs came back at 1100 on Monday morning before my injection. Does that mean when I inject again Monday, by my next injection on Wednesday they would be even higher? Or they barley fluctuate and stay around 1100 all week long.

I’m new to this and don’t understand how steady state works with someone on more frequent shots.

Once you reach steady stare, on MWF shots, is there really any fluctuations in levels during the week.

Also I wonder if you stop your shots on a Friday, how quickly your levels drop off/your body metabolizes testosterone. If I’m at 1100 at steady state and the half life is 7/8 days, does that mean it I don’t inject again until next Friday that my levels will be around half ~550, or it works more like that for guys who do large single weekly shots.

There’s not much difference between peak and trough on MWF but not much and probably not significant. You’re lowest level obviously would be Monday right before your injection, I doubt you’d feel any different, there there’s always the exception.

You can take a look at steroidplotter.com and put in your dose and schedule and see how it looks. I’m on my phone and couldn’t figure out how to get an image inserted. Remember it’s not really telling you your levels, but relatively speaking when your peaks and troughs and about how far apart they are. It’s worth it to go plug in your dose using various protocols to see how they differ. It’s using a “spherical cow” idealized model, but it’s useful for the big picture.

I used the plotter, and this is what it looks like. It’s hard to tell what is what, but it shows how the shots build on top of each other from Monday to Friday, with the peak being highest after the Friday shot. Also it shows how levels fall until the next Monday shot.

Do fewer weeks and you’ll be able to see what’s going on better. Regardless, it’s not perfect and pre shot on Monday is trough. Test then. No, there won’t be much difference.

I decided to skip my Monday shot and test on Wednesday morning (5 days and 120 hours since last shot).

TT 987 (240 - 950)
FT 35 ( 9-30)

I just found out that they overfill the 1ml vials by .1 to .2ml, so that means my 1ml 200mg vial could possible have 220 -240mg, so since i split my vial into 2 weeks/6 equal shots, i could have been potentially taking 110 - 120mg per week and not the 100mg i assumed i was taking…either way, with my levels being this high 5 days after my last shot, it makes me realize that i could go lower and be fine. I might actually lower my dose to 80-90mg per week split into 3 MWF doses and see how i feel.

Thanks for all the input

So you didn’t like… measure how much you were injecting or something like that?

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When I was using the smaller vials, I just measured out the prescribed dose and usually got about 1 extra inj out of a 200mg vial.

I did, and then after a while I realized that every time I was measuring my second week out of the same 1ml vial, I was pulling more than what I needed for it to be half. For example week 1: I would pull .5cc and split that into 3 doses. A week later I would just pull the rest out and finally realized that it was getting .6-.7cc rather than the .5cc. After a quick search on the forum other members verified that they overfill the 1ml vials by .1 - .2, so all my vials have been overfilled and I’ve been using up a whole vial every 2 weeks…which leads me to believe that I’ve been taking between 110mg and 120mg rather than 100mg. Not sure how big of a difference 10-20mg would make, but at least now I know. I never had this problem when they prescribed me the 10ml vial, because the draw was the same every time.

I’m not sure how the amount in the vial would impact the amount you’re injecting. If the vial was 100ml you’d still be drawing the correct amount, assuming you know how to dose correctly.

The best method I know of to get the most precise amount of oil in your syringe, and inject all of it with zero waste, is to use the air lock technique. I explain it about halfway through this video. Hope it helps.

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Just focus on how much is going into the syringe just like the larger vial. You may get an extra inj out of a vial, or occaionally I could combine the last bits of 3 or 4 vials to get one more injection.

My 1mL vials from Hikma always gave 1.2mL in them. I’ll get 2 extra vials out of each 10mL script

Where do I get me one of those 100ml vials of testosterone?