T Nation

Informal Observations

Something Bushy said in my reading suggestions thread got me thinking. He mentioned his knowledge has come from talking to people and listening to experiences and such on the web.

So, I thought it be interesting a potentially a good source of information to have a thread where people can post their informal observations that aren’t often written about and that sort of thing. ‘Off the beaten path’ type information that only comes from experiencing things and considering your results.

So, I was thinking people could post things such as

-What is your favorite cycle, and why, specifically…anything from ‘I made the most gains on it’ to ‘it didn’t make my gyno flare up’ lol.

-what do you do differently when on cycle and off as far as training, style of dieting, and supplementation.

-Have specific styles of training proven the more effective than others while on cycle, and have specific styles of training worked better with different compounds? I.E. training with alot of work above 85% of RM might be really hard when using a compound thats hard on the joints.

Just that sort of real world experience/information that might help someone else out.

If this thread dies, it dies, but I thought it’d be interesting at least for me.

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The greatest observation I’ve made is everyone is differant. You have to experiment with what works for you. Some people’s best drugs will be other’s worst.

You have to start with your best educated guess based on many people’s experiences, then through trial and error find out what works best for you.

Some examples;

Deca gives some people gyno, others not.

Equipoise gives some people anxiety, others not.

Some people get back pumps from orals, others don’t.

Some steroids cause people to be lunatics, others it increases their well-being.

Some people grow like weeds on small amounts of gear (me, and buffd_samurai). Other’s need 1000mg+ gear a week to make minimal gains.

Some people don’t need AI’s on high amounts of aromatizing gear. Other’s need small amounts of AI’s. Still some need large amounts i.e. 2.5mg Letrozole on 200mg test a week(Me). Others don’t like test at all due to getting bloat regardless of AI’s.

I’m sure you can see what I’m getting at. There is no perfect cycle, no perfect drug, and no perfect dosage.

That is all true, i think however, that after watching this forum and people in general, 500mg/wk of test enanthate, 50mg daily of proviron for a total of 12 weeks using 4 weeks of nolva is a perfect cycle for 95% of the general dialed in populus.

I’ll throw out one that I’ve gotten criticized for on numerous occasions: I use an AI or SERM on EVERY cycle, even cycles with non-aromatizing compounds.

I know a few guys, myself included, that have had gyno flare-ups even with non-aromatizing compounds. I think sometimes we forget that, for all our knowledge, the endocrine system is still a very complex beast. The axiom that a compound can’t cause gyno if it doesn’t aromatize seems to be an oversimplification. For some percentage of guys, any compound that causes suppression of natural testosterone can trigger gyno. I’ve seen this firsthand. Conversely, I’ve never felt that my gains have been compromised by a properly dosed AI or SERM, so using them all the time is a no-brainer to me.

Interesting stuff guys.

I see your point about not understanding causes with this type of stuff Bushy.

I just thought it’d be interesting to see different experiences anyway.

I figure gear is just like everything else in bodybuilding in that what works best for you is very individual. I didn’t expect to get any ‘A is best and B is worst’ responses. I just thought people like, moriarty who do things differently for whatever reason might be interesting to hear…its up to the individual to decided if they should replicate such a thing and we can’t and no one else can control that anyway.

Just thought it might open up some decent discussion since that seems to be lacking lately outside of the good logs.

Based upon my limited experience and my few years of reading the AAS boards (the last two fairly obsessively), I can say that what the smart guys above me are saying about everyone being different is about as close to the “truth” as you are going to get. (btw, did you read my “Truths you have learned about steroids” thread? I think it addresses a lot of these issues.)

I do know that it is not “sexy,” however, to just say that, so I will throw a couple of bones your way just based on what I am experiencing at this moment in my present cycle:

Eating around 90% clean and getting over 300g of protein a day on cycle has been INCREDIBLE in terms of quality of gains. It is very, very possible to lose fat while gaining muscle.

50 grams of human grade proviron added to over 700mg/test/w makes me so horny I often have trouble functioning in the higher levels of consciousness.

Using an AI (even liberally) does NOT hinder gains. I cannot imagine doing too much better than I am doing now if I was keeping my AI dose a lot lower just to maximize things. Also, I feel about a thousand times better using an AI to keep my estrogen levels down and keeping the bloat off.

You don’t need NEARLY as much sleep on gear.

And one I have said before that brings us full circle but I think it bears repeating:

Just because a bunch of guys, even most guys, say that a particular side effect is terrible (for example tren induced insomnia) does not even mean that you will experience that side effect. Before I did test, I thought I would get a lot of acne because I was “prone” to that. I didn’t. Before I did tren, I thought I would certainly develop insomnia because I was “prone” to it. I didn’t. I was told that tren would be terribly suppressive and that my balls would dissapear. I really haven’t found that to be true (and I have experienced the other effects of tren like ridiculous night sweats and crazy fat loss, so I’m pretty sure my tren is real).

Bottom line, as the other guys are saying, is you have to experiment and don’t get freaked out by what anyone tells you, because you just won’t know until you try it for yourself.

Thanks man, and yes I’ve read part of the truths thread, but not in a while, I think I’ll go check it out.