T Nation

Info on These Prohormones


More questions on prohormones.. Im know, I know.. but i do not have access to AAS.

Warrior by Element Nutrition seems to be a triple stacked DS = Tren/Epi/SD. Sounds like suicide for your liver and plenty of sides.. Not to mention 2 methyls.. but does anyone have any other info/experience?

30mg of 19-norandrosta4,9 diene 3,17 dione

10mg of 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

6mg of 2a-17a-dimethyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one

5mg of bioperine


Why do you not have access to AAS?

I think you're just not looking hard enough.


True, i am not looking hard enough. But i am 21 and have somewhat decided to put off AAS for a few more years


Explain to us how PH's are any different than AAS. Don't worry, we'll wait.

If you're going to make the decision to potentially harm your body for gains in muscle, the reward to risk ratio of real AAS is much more favorable.

EDIT: I don't mean to come across as rude, I'm just an asshole. Sorry man.


PH arent much different from AAS, im not arguing that. Im simply taking advice from individuals with more experience than myself. From everything i read and from what i hear, it is a better idea to wait until your natural testosterone levels have peaked (around 25) to take AAS. Its seems almost as an unsaid rule [>25 = NO AAS]


Re-read, out loud to yourself, what you just typed.

If it isn't okay to use AAS younger than 25, why would it be okay to use PH's? You said yourself:

Now, it frankly doesn't matter to me how old you are when you start using. I understand why it is common advice to wait, and I also understand why some people start sooner. Without knowing more about you, we can't make that call. Just understand that this isn't a moral or health discussion about age.

PH's are still going to shut down your natural test production. You are still going to need to maintain estrogen levels, and you are still going to need to restart you natural test production.

If you are making the decision to shut yourself down, why not do it the safest and most effective way (which is not PH's.)


Im 20, ill be 21 next month. Ive been lifting 6 days a week since i was 16.

Currently - 200lbs @ 10% BF
Last Dec. - 215lbs @14% BF

Bench - 325
Squat -375
Dead - 505
Clean - 305

Training is on lock.
Diet is on lock when I feel like it. =P
275g Protein
350g Carbs
4000-5000 Cal.


As it was you who said that you want to wait to use AAS - You will still suppress your natural T with PH's and so the EXACT reason that you want to wait to use AAS goes for PH too..


If you're not ready for illegal gear, then you're not ready for PH/DS either. You really have to split hairs to put them in separate categories. PH/DS shut you down and cause side effects just like illegal gear. Don't let the legality of them trick you into thinking they are somehow "beginner steroids" or something. Also, many of the products that people refer to as "Pro-hormones" are actually full-blown steroids, just as much as any illegal orals are. Right now they are temporarily legal, so people think they must be weak or something. Next year, which is when they'll likely be restricted, if they are still floating around the black market (it would be nice if Superdrol and Epistane were still available) they might finally get the respect they deserve since they will have earned their "street cred" by being outlawed.

I'm not one of those guys who thinks all legal gear is crap either. People have made some really nice gains on short 3-8 week PH/DS cycles that are comparable or even better than what the typical illegal gear user is making. Yes, I've seen quite a few reports of over 20 pounds. There is a lot of mis-information out there about how dangerous and toxic they are. Don't listen to it, instead, checkout bloodwork that people have posted and decide for yourself. Doing my own such research has lead me to believe that other than a few exceptions, most legal gear is pretty mild in terms of factors like hepatoxicity.

If you do run a PH/DS, I suggest you run it just like you would any oral like D-Bol or A-Bombs - with a Test base. Many of the side effects (especially loss of libido) people report would probably be minimized if even a moderate does of Test were ran along with. A short 4-8 week cycle consisting of SD or Epi stacked on maybe Test Prop would probably be pretty awesome (lean-mass gains of 10-15+ pounds on solo 3-4 week SD cycles are common).


bmbweber I'm with you on not having access. I have to stick with Ph's myself. DOHCrazy for me ordering online has only gotten me seizure letters. There is no one in my area that uses so a local source it out of the question. A legitimate source would be great but getting it is another. Just seems to me that everybody jumps on people for Ph's but in my case that is my only option unless someone helps me out. I do understand the risks and gains are much more favorable with AAS as compared with Ph's but sometimes its just not an option. Just a thought.


Have you looked through the forum? A means to an end for a source is not hard to find.

I'm not going to do the work for you, but it shouldn't take much work in the first place.


The difference is - YOU tried.

The OP not only hasn't tried much - at all i strongly suspect (by his own words), but he says that he chooses PH as they are less damaging to someone his age than AAS.

This is also incorrect.

Your situations are totally different.


DOHCrazy I have been a member for a bit and simply read the forum for years prior. So I'm not gonna be that "troll" that openly asks for a source or has no clue how to run it. From my understanding this is a no source board and to ask for a source would be against policy.

For me a 1 on 1 basis would be much better. Obviously I'm a little bitter for online sources as i have already lost hundreds of dollars. My choice of source seemed to be recommended but maybe it was just my poor choice that screwed me and shoudln't be refected on the rest. The way you say "a means to a source is not hard to find," it seems that I am not looking in the right places or asking the right questions. And yes i did try Brook but i know that after i got burnt i kinda gave up on it.


Lazy fucking people.

I searched the word 'source' and came up with all types of threads pointing people in the right direction.

I'm surprised any of the vets even post on this board. Gee wiz.


I understand that I can punch in words and get sources. Speaking with someone on the legitimacy of the source is what i would be after. Sorry if it seems that i don't want to spend the time looking on my own because that is not the case. I don't expect a handout by any means.


Well, then i am sure you know who's fault that is then.

It is my opinion that if you want something - you give a little effort.

Do you honestly think i haven't been burnt over the years? I have lost hundreds of dollars myself mate.

If i leave the house and get beat the shit out of - it doesn't mean i don't leave the house!


Ha, very true. You definately have a valid point. I'm sure some more effort would hopefully lead to success if i try again.