Indigo-3G Observers Thread

While I haven’t been able to keep as much of a really intricately detailed log as I would have liked to (I’m already pretty open and frank in my contest prep threads), I’ve very obviously gotten quite a bit leaner, while my weight actually fought to go up on a caloric deficit. I competed 4 weeks ago at 175 lbs. Since then, after I stabilized from the initial post show water gain at about 176, my weight actually went up to 179, before slowly (insanely slowly as I added more cardio than I’ve ever done in my life!) coming down to where I am now, weighing MORE than I did the day of the last show, but with a hell of a lot more cuts in my upper quads (which are always thick skinned), many more striations in my delts, and veins where I’ve never had them before. TO ME, that means I’ve put on LBM.

For those who don’t know, I’m not a keto-dieter, and usually keep quite a bit of carbs in my preps. As I was hesitant to go above my usual 225g on most days (350g on high days), The fact that I’m leaner than I’ve ever been with that level of intake leaves me quite content going into my last week before the next contest.

S

I don’t mean to shit on anyone’s cheerios here, but does it seem like most of the people that were selected were the types that would be looking for a magic bullet?

Further, what steps are being taken to figure out the effects of Indigo-3G as opposed to the overall effects of a lifestyle change?

[quote]ethanwest wrote:
I don’t mean to shit on anyone’s cheerios here, but does it seem like most of the people that were selected were the types that would be looking for a magic bullet?

Further, what steps are being taken to figure out the effects of Indigo-3G as opposed to the overall effects of a lifestyle change?[/quote]

Hmmm…it doesn’t seem like the people selected are looking for a magic bullet, just a little pumped at the possibilities of what it could offer. I know I was highly skeptical, because the only “supplements” I knew that would make the body respond like what I-3G claimed was the special sauce.

Some of us are trying to keep parameters stable…but alas certain discoveries along the way sort of demand alteration in the experiment. I can tell you that with minimal changes in my normal day to day activities, I-3G really does make a difference. Now, it is up to the individual to determine if the difference experienced is to their liking or not.

People interested in primarily fat loss and sharpening up will find this stuff amazing, provided you had already been training adequately and have a reasonable diet. Hell…even anabolics can’t completely cover for a crappy diet or excercise regimen.

People looking for big muscle gains…well, the jury is still out on that one. It is for me so far at least. I think others though may have experienced better results in this department, but then again I think it is relative to one’s perception and experience level.

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:
Hell…even anabolics can’t completely cover for a crappy diet or excercise regimen. [/quote]

[quote]
but then again I think it is relative to one’s perception and experience level.[/quote]

Kind of important issues that a lot of people are overlooking. Anyone who hasn’t achieved a huge and shredded physique isn’t magically going to develop one no matter what supplement they take (trust me, there’s a lot of kids ad my gym on juice who still look like crap).

However, an intelligent trainer who hasn’t been able to adequately maintain muscle while cutting, or someone (again, an intelligent trainer) who has been able to remain fairly lean but their body just seemed unable to ‘make the most’ of the nutrients it’s been given when trying to add size, are going to view their results quite differently than seekers of a magic bullet.

S

[quote]stevo_ wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
I’ve tripled carb intake with no fat gain (with no change in my training except cutting cardio). When I did that before, I would balloon up in 1 week, EVERY time, even WITH cardio. I’m sold on it.

Now the big thing for me is, will that continue AFTER the 12 weeks? That to me, will be the the real benefit as it is so expensive that it could never be affordable as a regular use supplement.[/quote]

ok, but have you added more muscle or got any leaner? otherwise, all you’ve done is triple carb intake. This is one of the things i didn’t really understand when people were saying. “i added carbs and got leaner” well, great, but unless the fatloss is better than lowering carbs or whatever you may do already to get lean, aren’t you just paying 400 bucks so you can eat a few carbs? (which i guess one may argue is worth it it a way)

Now, obviously that only speaks to the fat loss piece, but that seems like what the majority of people with logs are trying to do,

Not a shot at you, or the supp by the way, just trying to better understand the practical application of this.[/quote]

I certainly understand what you are saying. All I can is my strength is going up quicker than before, I have more energy in the gym to train. But it’s hard to tell about muscle gain b/c 1) There’s not good accurate way that’s reasonable and affordable to keep testing bf %; 2) It’s been a little over 3 weeks; 3) I guess all you have is my anecdotal feelings and evidence.

Look, just b/c I’m flabby doesn’t mean I’ve never worked by ass off. I don’t really care what people think or say, I know how my body reacts when I take in a lot of carbs and it isn’t normally this way.

PLUS, I’ve evaluated my results from February until prior to starting Indigo. My training was lifting 3-4 days/week, with carbs ONLY at breakfast and pre-workout. Cardio was 2-3x/week. Calorie intake was around 1800-2200/day. I did not miss one week, except when I went to Utah for snowboarding for a week (which is hardly taking time off) If you look how far I came in 2-3 months, it’s sad. Sure, I got stronger, but my fat loss was still no existent.

Then you look at my 3 weeks after ONLY altering my calorie intake and decreasing my cardio (overall MORE cals), and I lean up, get stronger, have better workouts.

I am by no means a supplement hound. The only supps I took during those 3 months were protein, BCAA’s, and creatine on workout days.

Now Buffd made a very good observation about testosterone levels playing a key role in muscle building. To be honest, I’ve always leaned towards my test levels not being optimal; that being said, muscle gain could just be naturally slower in me BUT this kind of product will let me provide myself with the nutrients so I can at least MAXIMALLY build muscle for MY body without adding tons of fat, which happens to me normally when I eat like this. Someone with higher test levels (Such as CT, Buffd, Stu) would most likely see muscle building results much quicker.

Does this provide a better analysis?

Ok, let me re phrase because I’m not doubting it works. Let’s say it works fantastically, carbs go where they should. Boom.

From a purely fat loss point of view using some of the more extreme examples in “team 1”, what is the advantage of having someone who is frankly obese, use indigo 3 so they can eat more carbs?

Will they lose more fat than just dieting with less carbs?

Because if not, what’s the point?

Bare in mind ALL I’m talking about is fat loss here, which is what some of these people need. They shouldn’t even be dreaming about muscle at this point.

Serious question as I don’t know the answer.

Well some probably will have no problem adding muscle while losing fat because it seems like they are quite out of shape. Also if some of them lose a ton of weight there will be nothing left because their LBM is so low even though their body weight is high.

[quote]stevo_ wrote:
Ok, let me re phrase because I’m not doubting it works. Let’s say it works fantastically, carbs go where they should. Boom.

From a purely fat loss point of view using some of the more extreme examples in “team 1”, what is the advantage of having someone who is frankly obese, use indigo 3 so they can eat more carbs?

Will they lose more fat than just dieting with less carbs?

Because if not, what’s the point?

Bare in mind ALL I’m talking about is fat loss here, which is what some of these people need. They shouldn’t even be dreaming about muscle at this point.

Serious question as I don’t know the answer.[/quote]

I pretty much agree with this.

I would say the ideal scenarios for Indigo would be (not exclusive, just off the top of my head, and remember, these #s are just arbitrary)

  1. The guy at 10% bf wanting to get down to 8% without having to ‘cut’ and is actually able to add carbs to fuel more intense training, ‘fixing’ their nutrient partioning, possibly adding LBM while losing some bf

  2. Same scenario, but the person who just bulked up from 10-12% bf and are now 14-16% bf and are looking to get back to a lower bf to continue gaining without having to cut

  3. Then the person who is maybe 16-18% (still not over 20% bf), who uses it to ‘fix’ their nutrient partioning, and jump start fat loss

  4. The guy who is already lean to somewhat lean (8-12% bf) and wants to add as much LBM as possible and make sure that the excess calories (read carbs) are going where they should be going

[quote]stevo_ wrote:
Ok, let me re phrase because I’m not doubting it works. Let’s say it works fantastically, carbs go where they should. Boom.

From a purely fat loss point of view using some of the more extreme examples in “team 1”, what is the advantage of having someone who is frankly obese, use indigo 3 so they can eat more carbs?

Will they lose more fat than just dieting with less carbs?

Because if not, what’s the point?

Bare in mind ALL I’m talking about is fat loss here, which is what some of these people need. They shouldn’t even be dreaming about muscle at this point.

Serious question as I don’t know the answer.[/quote]

These are very reasonable questions…but allow me to present the situation a different way.

Going low carb in NOT easy. And it is highly debatable whether doing this is healthy for you or not. For some, going low-carb is easy…these are the iron willed people who are willing to sacrifice the satiety that carbs bring for the goal of improved physique look. If one is strong willed enough to do this…and if one likes to suffer a tad when doing this…then I-3G might not be necessary for this person. But not everyone can do this; people’s different physiologies might react poorly or unhealthily to the low carb regimen. I reject all claims by those who say low carb works for everyone…because it doesn’t.

The folks who are “overweight” as you put it probably have tried real hard to adhere to a strict regimented diet and excercise, but for some reason or another, found it difficult to stay on it for a period of time necessary to notice the changes. So if there is something like I-3G which will shuttle the carbs away from fat, then it makes staying on a reasonable diet (which INCLUDES healthy carbs) that much easier. And once they see improvement in their bodies as they adhere to diet and excercise, it psychologically builds on itself…success begets success.

I say those who are “overweight” need this supplement even more. To simply say, “why don’t they just reduce carbs?” is not really addressing the entire situation.

To be quite frank, I hope alot of people who simply want to doubt Indigo-3G for a variety of reasons really don’t try it. Because then there will be more for me to buy.

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:

[quote]stevo_ wrote:
Ok, let me re phrase because I’m not doubting it works. Let’s say it works fantastically, carbs go where they should. Boom.

From a purely fat loss point of view using some of the more extreme examples in “team 1”, what is the advantage of having someone who is frankly obese, use indigo 3 so they can eat more carbs?

Will they lose more fat than just dieting with less carbs?

Because if not, what’s the point?

Bare in mind ALL I’m talking about is fat loss here, which is what some of these people need. They shouldn’t even be dreaming about muscle at this point.

Serious question as I don’t know the answer.[/quote]

These are very reasonable questions…but allow me to present the situation a different way.

Going low carb in NOT easy. And it is highly debatable whether doing this is healthy for you or not. For some, going low-carb is easy…these are the iron willed people who are willing to sacrifice the satiety that carbs bring for the goal of improved physique look. If one is strong willed enough to do this…and if one likes to suffer a tad when doing this…then Indigo-3G might not be necessary for this person. But not everyone can do this; people’s different physiologies might react poorly or unhealthily to the low carb regimen. I reject all claims by those who say low carb works for everyone…because it doesn’t.

The folks who are “overweight” as you put it probably have tried real hard to adhere to a strict regimented diet and excercise, but for some reason or another, found it difficult to stay on it for a period of time necessary to notice the changes. So if there is something like Indigo-3G which will shuttle the carbs away from fat, then it makes staying on a reasonable diet (which INCLUDES healthy carbs) that much easier. And once they see improvement in their bodies as they adhere to diet and excercise, it psychologically builds on itself…success begets success.

I say those who are “overweight” need this supplement even more. To simply say, “why don’t they just reduce carbs?” is not really addressing the entire situation.

To be quite frank, I hope alot of people who simply want to doubt Indigo-3G for a variety of reasons really don’t try it. Because then there will be more for me to buy. [/quote]

Mate, i think you’re being a little generous with this comment

“The folks who are “overweight” as you put it probably have tried real hard to adhere to a strict regimented diet and excercise”

You don’t get to 350+ pounds and 50+ percent bodyfat by trying hard at ANYTHING…i’m sorry. you don’t

Now, if the answer is that you wont lose fat faster, but you can lose it at the same rate as dropping carbs without as much “pain” ie easier eating, then that’s a TOTALLY acceptable answer to my original question of “whats the advantage” and is a very useful supp.

By the way, for the record, i will be trying it for sure. 100%. As soon as it comes out, if for no other reason than i dont really care about $400 and im interested, im not in anyway doubting it, bashing it, hating on it, or whatever else, the only supps i buy are from Biotest.

[quote]stevo_ wrote:

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:

[quote]stevo_ wrote:
Ok, let me re phrase because I’m not doubting it works. Let’s say it works fantastically, carbs go where they should. Boom.

From a purely fat loss point of view using some of the more extreme examples in “team 1”, what is the advantage of having someone who is frankly obese, use indigo 3 so they can eat more carbs?

Will they lose more fat than just dieting with less carbs?

Because if not, what’s the point?

Bare in mind ALL I’m talking about is fat loss here, which is what some of these people need. They shouldn’t even be dreaming about muscle at this point.

Serious question as I don’t know the answer.[/quote]

These are very reasonable questions…but allow me to present the situation a different way.

Going low carb in NOT easy. And it is highly debatable whether doing this is healthy for you or not. For some, going low-carb is easy…these are the iron willed people who are willing to sacrifice the satiety that carbs bring for the goal of improved physique look. If one is strong willed enough to do this…and if one likes to suffer a tad when doing this…then Indigo-3G might not be necessary for this person. But not everyone can do this; people’s different physiologies might react poorly or unhealthily to the low carb regimen. I reject all claims by those who say low carb works for everyone…because it doesn’t.

The folks who are “overweight” as you put it probably have tried real hard to adhere to a strict regimented diet and excercise, but for some reason or another, found it difficult to stay on it for a period of time necessary to notice the changes. So if there is something like Indigo-3G which will shuttle the carbs away from fat, then it makes staying on a reasonable diet (which INCLUDES healthy carbs) that much easier. And once they see improvement in their bodies as they adhere to diet and excercise, it psychologically builds on itself…success begets success.

I say those who are “overweight” need this supplement even more. To simply say, “why don’t they just reduce carbs?” is not really addressing the entire situation.

To be quite frank, I hope alot of people who simply want to doubt Indigo-3G for a variety of reasons really don’t try it. Because then there will be more for me to buy. [/quote]

Mate, i think you’re being a little generous with this comment

“The folks who are “overweight” as you put it probably have tried real hard to adhere to a strict regimented diet and excercise”

You don’t get to 350+ pounds and 50+ percent bodyfat by trying hard at ANYTHING…i’m sorry. you don’t

Now, if the answer is that you wont lose fat faster, but you can lose it at the same rate as dropping carbs without as much “pain” ie easier eating, then that’s a TOTALLY acceptable answer to my original question of “whats the advantage” and is a very useful supp.

By the way, for the record, i will be trying it for sure. 100%. As soon as it comes out, if for no other reason than i dont really care about $400 and im interested, im not in anyway doubting it, bashing it, hating on it, or whatever else, the only supps i buy are from Biotest.
[/quote]

If it fixes insulin sensitivity - that’s an advantage. After 12 weeks use, I want to see someone continue to eat 250-350g carbs a day ( including peri workout ) and see what happens. Do they start to add fat back on instantly, or does their body continue to use the carbs properly. That’s going to be the real advantage.

Right now I can say that Indigo-3G ( even on low carbs ) has my body changing faster than it ever has before. Granted I’m a total newb to training at this point, 6 years ago I started and wasn’t making the progress I’ve made in 5 weeks on Indigo-3G and I wasn’t fat then. There could be plenty of other factors at play right now, but guess what- I’m taking Indigo-3G and the 2 months prior to Indigo-3G the gains weren’t so apparent.

[quote]stevo_ wrote:
Mate, i think you’re being a little generous with this comment

“The folks who are “overweight” as you put it probably have tried real hard to adhere to a strict regimented diet and excercise”

You don’t get to 350+ pounds and 50+ percent bodyfat by trying hard at ANYTHING…i’m sorry. you don’t

Now, if the answer is that you wont lose fat faster, but you can lose it at the same rate as dropping carbs without as much “pain” ie easier eating, then that’s a TOTALLY acceptable answer to my original question of “whats the advantage” and is a very useful supp.

By the way, for the record, i will be trying it for sure. 100%. As soon as it comes out, if for no other reason than i dont really care about $400 and im interested, im not in anyway doubting it, bashing it, hating on it, or whatever else, the only supps i buy are from Biotest.
[/quote]

I’m referring to the I-3G team 1 participants when I write about the “folks” above. Now, I have unfortunately not read every training log so I’m not sure who is 350 lb and 50% bodyfat that you are referring to, but the logs I’ve followed are people who are putting in effort, both in training and in the diet. Sure, there must have been some lapse to get to the “large” point, but what was done is done, and they are simply trying to get back on track with something that promised great things.

I applaud their willingness to simply try, instead of standing in the wings.

Even if there are participants who meet this description, I firmly believe I-3G can help them on their road to a slimmer, healthier body…moreso than simply reducing carbs. Heck, ALOT more than simply reducing carbs. I was a huge skeptic before taking this…though I was extremely intrigued. I can seriously say that I-3G will have many many benefits for potential protocols of various natures

[quote]corstijeir wrote:
If it fixes insulin sensitivity - that’s an advantage. After 12 weeks use, I want to see someone continue to eat 250-350g carbs a day ( including peri workout ) and see what happens. Do they start to add fat back on instantly, or does their body continue to use the carbs properly. That’s going to be the real advantage.

Right now I can say that Indigo-3G ( even on low carbs ) has my body changing faster than it ever has before. Granted I’m a total newb to training at this point, 6 years ago I started and wasn’t making the progress I’ve made in 5 weeks on Indigo-3G and I wasn’t fat then. There could be plenty of other factors at play right now, but guess what- I’m taking Indigo-3G and the 2 months prior to Indigo-3G the gains weren’t so apparent.
[/quote]

I think this would be interesting as well…however, Biotest gurus stated that one cannot lapse back into a habit of eating the “bad” carbs again or bad fats…or else one’s fat cells go back to being “broken”. Since it is so difficult for some to maintain a clean diet, I-3G could be just the trick to resolve inevitable lapses. I know that as long as I-3G is available, I will always want some at my disposal.

[quote]stevo_ wrote:

Now, if the answer is that you wont lose fat faster, but you can lose it at the same rate as dropping carbs without as much “pain” ie easier eating, then that’s a TOTALLY acceptable answer to my original question of “whats the advantage” and is a very useful supp.

[/quote]

Ooops…forgot to add one thing.

In my experience here, I truly believe that I-3G drops fat quicker and at a faster rate than just dropping carbs. I-3G really is something.

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:

[quote]stevo_ wrote:

Now, if the answer is that you wont lose fat faster, but you can lose it at the same rate as dropping carbs without as much “pain” ie easier eating, then that’s a TOTALLY acceptable answer to my original question of “whats the advantage” and is a very useful supp.

[/quote]

Ooops…forgot to add one thing.

In my experience here, I truly believe that I-3G drops fat quicker and at a faster rate than just dropping carbs. I-3G really is something.

[/quote]

Excellent, I believe you

i do not comment on here very much but i just found this thread and found the reading very interesting.alot of good points have been made.IMO i don’t believe the hype.i think it is a pure marketing ploy.as far as the changes i have seen very little.at this point i think it is mind over matter.give them this supp and tell them it is great and they will start to see and feel changes.just like the story the emporers new clothes.

the supp will never take the place of hard work in the gym or otherwise.i personally would not spend 400 on any supp.i can buy a hell of alot of good food with that money that i am positve from my own experience will do just as much if not more than some miracle supp.IMO there just is no subsitute for hard work.this is not a 6 or 12 week thing it is a lifestyle within a lifestyle.

except for a few of the people in this test market most are not what they say they are.typical internet bullshit hidden behind a computer you can be what ever you want whenever you want…this post is not meant to offend anyone if does oh well life’s a bitch live it to it’s fullest it is more fun that way.

the active ingredient has been studied by the medical profession since at least 2006. i wouldnt be surprised if it effective. i am interested in reading some scientific reports on its effectiveness.

as far as these team members go, i would expect every single one of them to make good improvements. in almost everyone’s list of how to achieve a goal, telling people about it is included. once you tell enough people about your goal, failure is not an option.

[quote]gregt51 wrote:
i do not comment on here very much but i just found this thread and found the reading very interesting.alot of good points have been made.IMO i don’t believe the hype.i think it is a pure marketing ploy.as far as the changes i have seen very little.at this point i think it is mind over matter.give them this supp and tell them it is great and they will start to see and feel changes.just like the story the emporers new clothes.

the supp will never take the place of hard work in the gym or otherwise.i personally would not spend 400 on any supp.i can buy a hell of alot of good food with that money that i am positve from my own experience will do just as much if not more than some miracle supp.IMO there just is no subsitute for hard work.this is not a 6 or 12 week thing it is a lifestyle within a lifestyle.

except for a few of the people in this test market most are not what they say they are.typical internet bullshit hidden behind a computer you can be what ever you want whenever you want…this post is not meant to offend anyone if does oh well life’s a bitch live it to it’s fullest it is more fun that way.[/quote]

^^GTFO!!!

There is only one Greg on these boards!

Substitue “greg” for “highlander” in the pic

lol… just kidding

yup the medical field always looking for that one pill cure for everything.gotta hand it to them.of the side effects include enlarged heart,diareha,blurred vision and stroke consult your doctor before using this supp.liver tests may be needed lol

[quote]buffd_samurai wrote:

[quote]corstijeir wrote:
If it fixes insulin sensitivity - that’s an advantage. After 12 weeks use, I want to see someone continue to eat 250-350g carbs a day ( including peri workout ) and see what happens. Do they start to add fat back on instantly, or does their body continue to use the carbs properly. That’s going to be the real advantage.

Right now I can say that Indigo-3G ( even on low carbs ) has my body changing faster than it ever has before. Granted I’m a total newb to training at this point, 6 years ago I started and wasn’t making the progress I’ve made in 5 weeks on Indigo-3G and I wasn’t fat then. There could be plenty of other factors at play right now, but guess what- I’m taking Indigo-3G and the 2 months prior to Indigo-3G the gains weren’t so apparent.
[/quote]

I think this would be interesting as well…however, Biotest gurus stated that one cannot lapse back into a habit of eating the “bad” carbs again or bad fats…or else one’s fat cells go back to being “broken”. Since it is so difficult for some to maintain a clean diet, I-3G could be just the trick to resolve inevitable lapses. I know that as long as I-3G is available, I will always want some at my disposal. [/quote]

I agree- you can’t eat like crap, but you can eat 2-3 carb meals a day ( breakfast and dinner is easily 100g of carbs between oatmeal and sweet potato ) and then 100-200g of carbs periworkout ( depending on your goal ).

I feel that 200g of carbs a day with most being periworkout after a 12 week cycle of I3G wont make you gain fat if you’re putting the effort in the gym, however only time will tell.