Indigo-3G Observers Thread

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
yeah, I like how you’re waiting till your ready to start taking it. Do you start to put the weight on easily in your love handles first? That’s what happens to me too. I’ll be following… Good luck bulking with Indigo… [/quote]

That’s what happened the last time. I’ve still got a stretchmark on one of my love handles to remind me of it.

Since I’ve changed a lot since then I want to take some time to see how much better I can bulk know with what I’ve learned. I should take at least 4 weeks to observe how my body behaves without I3G, not 2, but I’m a bit impatient having it in my room. So I’m treating the 2 weeks more as a break-in period.

Anyway, we’ll see what happens. I’d rather over-observe this thing than over-analyze it so I’ll go mostly with what I’ve already decided.

[quote]BiP wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
yeah, I like how you’re waiting till your ready to start taking it. Do you start to put the weight on easily in your love handles first? That’s what happens to me too. I’ll be following… Good luck bulking with Indigo… [/quote]

That’s what happened the last time. I’ve still got a stretchmark on one of my love handles to remind me of it.

Since I’ve changed a lot since then I want to take some time to see how much better I can bulk know with what I’ve learned. I should take at least 4 weeks to observe how my body behaves without I3G, not 2, but I’m a bit impatient having it in my room. So I’m treating the 2 weeks more as a break-in period.

Anyway, we’ll see what happens. I’d rather over-observe this thing than over-analyze it so I’ll go mostly with what I’ve already decided.[/quote]

So this will be interesting for you. One thing I started doing based on leangains principles is eating ~50-60% of my calories, including any sugary carb treats I may crave, in the 2 hour post workout window. I’m in a body recomp mode though, not bulking. I seem to remember a couple posters on here making great progress by consuming huge post workout meals though.

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

[quote]BiP wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
yeah, I like how you’re waiting till your ready to start taking it. Do you start to put the weight on easily in your love handles first? That’s what happens to me too. I’ll be following… Good luck bulking with Indigo… [/quote]

That’s what happened the last time. I’ve still got a stretchmark on one of my love handles to remind me of it.

Since I’ve changed a lot since then I want to take some time to see how much better I can bulk know with what I’ve learned. I should take at least 4 weeks to observe how my body behaves without I3G, not 2, but I’m a bit impatient having it in my room. So I’m treating the 2 weeks more as a break-in period.

Anyway, we’ll see what happens. I’d rather over-observe this thing than over-analyze it so I’ll go mostly with what I’ve already decided.[/quote]

So this will be interesting for you. One thing I started doing based on leangains principles is eating ~50-60% of my calories, including any sugary carb treats I may crave, in the 2 hour post workout window. I’m in a body recomp mode though, not bulking. I seem to remember a couple posters on here making great progress by consuming huge post workout meals though. [/quote]

My post-workout meal (lunch) is my first and largest solid meal of the day. In a way I am doing mini-leangains - I only have 1 scoop whey for breakfast, start peri-workout nutrition within two hours of that and have three solid meals afterwards.

I’ve done the pulse feast a couple of times and I really liked it, although I would need a bigger budget to do it in the long run. I might do it for a month or two at some point in my life and see how it goes. It seems to work nicely for losing weight or keeping it down, since you’re not really hungry throughout the day and you won’t eat ridiculous amount unless you’re actually trying.

B.

[quote]stevo_ wrote:
Is going to be interesting, hard to know how much you can read into a lot of the logs though. There some level 4’s there that seem like they could benefit from joining a gym, let a lone a $400 wonder supplement!

Hope like hell it works as promised though thats for sure.[/quote]

Seriously. Most of the people who posted physique pictures looked pretty awful.

It will be hard to separate whether their seeing results from the supplement, or simply from actually working out harder and keeping a log.

Yep. Just the added attention, accountability and leverage from using 400 on a supplement would be plenty for some of those cats to see progress. Still, there are some whose words hold water, namely Stu and ParagonA whom I believe to be at the peak of their potential, and growth there would mean something.

[quote]Amonero wrote:
Yep. Just the added attention, accountability and leverage from using 400 on a supplement would be plenty for some of those cats to see progress. Still, there are some whose words hold water, namely Stu and ParagonA whom I believe to be at the peak of their potential, and growth there would mean something.[/quote]

Yea that’s why I said “mostly”. There’s only a handful of users in the Team 1 whose results I would find interesting.

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]Amonero wrote:
Yep. Just the added attention, accountability and leverage from using 400 on a supplement would be plenty for some of those cats to see progress. Still, there are some whose words hold water, namely Stu and ParagonA whom I believe to be at the peak of their potential, and growth there would mean something.[/quote]

Yea that’s why I said “mostly”. There’s only a handful of users in the Team 1 whose results I would find interesting.[/quote]

Agreed, although those guys are both in contest prep or coming off contests right? so aren’t there going to be all sorts of wild fluctuations in body weight and body comp anyway?

PS If thats wrong, apologies, ive skim read a lot of the stuff.

Much like all supps i think the only way you’re going to know is throwing out $400 and taking a punt.

I’m kind of irritated that Shelby will be working with so many as it’ll drastically affect (maybe more so than Indigo who knows?) the majority of people that are working with him. It skews the validity of these trial runs in my opinion when you give them the best coaches and nutritionists. I’d like to see what it does to a normal T-Nation reader who has access to what most of us here do. Just my 2 cents.

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I’m kind of irritated that Shelby will be working with so many as it’ll drastically affect (maybe more so than Indigo who knows?) the majority of people that are working with him. It skews the validity of these trial runs in my opinion when you give them the best coaches and nutritionists. I’d like to see what it does to a normal T-Nation reader who has access to what most of us here do. Just my 2 cents. [/quote]

Well, no coaching whatsoever has started yet (other than “Eat more carbs!”), so I believe the last 2-3 weeks (which is how long most Team1 members have been using Indigo for) should still be of interest to you. Plus about 60 people will not have Shelby’s direct coaching.

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
Yeah, I was real interested in how Biotest was patenting this, but their application must have been fairly recent (from a patent point of view) because I can’t find it in the USPTO application search. I think it lags by about 18 months, though I can never remember. That’s the lawyers job… :slight_smile:
[/quote]

there are 43 patent applications published since 2001 that refer to cyanidin 3-glucoside. some specifically refer to it as an antiobesity supplement. COuld be an interesting patent battle if someone else gets a patent on its use.

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]stevo_ wrote:
Is going to be interesting, hard to know how much you can read into a lot of the logs though. There some level 4’s there that seem like they could benefit from joining a gym, let a lone a $400 wonder supplement!

Hope like hell it works as promised though thats for sure.[/quote]

Seriously. Most of the people who posted physique pictures looked pretty awful.

It will be hard to separate whether their seeing results from the supplement, or simply from actually working out harder and keeping a log.[/quote]

I’m with you on this one, no disrespect meant to those concerned of course, but it looks like a case of “all the gear and no idea”. I think as with all supplement releases there was some hype surrounding this product, understandable when Biotests’ supplement success is considered. It will be interesting to compare the results of those working with Shelby and those going it alone.

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I’m kind of irritated that Shelby will be working with so many as it’ll drastically affect (maybe more so than Indigo who knows?) the majority of people that are working with him. It skews the validity of these trial runs in my opinion when you give them the best coaches and nutritionists. I’d like to see what it does to a normal T-Nation reader who has access to what most of us here do. Just my 2 cents. [/quote]

Agreed. It seems to me they need a control group: people NOT on I3G but still getting coaching and nutritional advice.

[quote]believer423 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I’m kind of irritated that Shelby will be working with so many as it’ll drastically affect (maybe more so than Indigo who knows?) the majority of people that are working with him. It skews the validity of these trial runs in my opinion when you give them the best coaches and nutritionists. I’d like to see what it does to a normal T-Nation reader who has access to what most of us here do. Just my 2 cents. [/quote]

Agreed. It seems to me they need a control group: people NOT on I3G but still getting coaching and nutritional advice.[/quote]

There does not need to be a control group. Shelby posts a lot of client success stories. Compare those with Team 1 results.
Also, Shelby is less expensive, especially when he runs his free weeks or dollars off specials, than the supplement. Buy his services and dont wait for a supplement.

[quote]believer423 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I’m kind of irritated that Shelby will be working with so many as it’ll drastically affect (maybe more so than Indigo who knows?) the majority of people that are working with him. It skews the validity of these trial runs in my opinion when you give them the best coaches and nutritionists. I’d like to see what it does to a normal T-Nation reader who has access to what most of us here do. Just my 2 cents. [/quote]

Agreed. It seems to me they need a control group: people NOT on I3G but still getting coaching and nutritional advice.[/quote]

One last point, his ebook, lean gains, is like $10. That is about 90% of what he offers in his one on one coaching. I have done both. I know.

I just want the damn thing to work so I don’t see another FFB or “carb intolerance” sob story.

Apart from that, it an interesting supplement, to say the least.

[quote]jolopez wrote:

[quote]believer423 wrote:

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
I’m kind of irritated that Shelby will be working with so many as it’ll drastically affect (maybe more so than Indigo who knows?) the majority of people that are working with him. It skews the validity of these trial runs in my opinion when you give them the best coaches and nutritionists. I’d like to see what it does to a normal T-Nation reader who has access to what most of us here do. Just my 2 cents. [/quote]

Agreed. It seems to me they need a control group: people NOT on I3G but still getting coaching and nutritional advice.[/quote]

There does not need to be a control group. Shelby posts a lot of client success stories. Compare those with Team 1 results.
Also, Shelby is less expensive, especially when he runs his free weeks or dollars off specials, than the supplement. Buy his services and dont wait for a supplement.[/quote]

I already intend on hiring out Shelby (currently working with Josh Bryant) and I already own the Lean Gains book.

I think for the sake of observation it makes sense to have a group that is minimizing the amount of variables.

If anyone is interested, you can follow my thread as someone who is very sensitive to carbs. I’ve even had high level personal training for a year while in Iraq. Lost 20lbs in the first 1.5 months (195 to 175), dropped another 5 and then spent the next 6 months trying to “Bulk” by adding more carbs to just breakfast and lunch (already had carbs peri-workout) and all I did was gain 15lbs of fat and 2-3" on my waist…I did get stronger though :slight_smile:

Now I’m eating way more carbs than that, doing less cardio, and am putting on about 1 pound/week so far. The fact that I’m not FATTER after all these carbs is the selling point for me as compared to my past. I will probably start adding more carbs next week to see what happens.

This really is a fantastic supplement that everyone in the world should be using. Of course there is not supply enough for that. But I think that everyone who can get their hands on some should at least do the short course of it because it would be good to help your body in anyway possible even if you handle carbs well already. Why not make your body handle them even better.

Guys

I have a question.

Indigo shuttles all the nutrients where they need to go, specifically carbs into the muscle as oppossed to turning it into fat. If the muscles only have a certain capacity to store carbs in them, even if the carbs you ingest go straight to the muscle, surely if they have reached their capacity it will be stored as fat whatever you are taking?

So I don’t see how doubling/tripling your carb intake (If you are already eating a reasonable amount of carbs to support growth) will not lead to fat gain, even under ideal conditions. I’m not trying to put a downer on Indigo - Biotest make some great supps. It’s just that I had a moment of enlightenment 5 weeks ago. I was taking quite a few Biotest supps (SWF,Finibars Anaconda, MAG-10 etc…A small fortunes worth)and to be honest relyed on them to much - didn’t train as smart and hard as I could’ve and my diet wasn’t perfect.

I started IF with just 1 scoop of Anaconda pre-workout (didn’t wanna waste what I had left). You know what. I didn’t run outta energy, my weights did not decrease and I recovered well. I felt more focussed and trained hard. IF will improve insulin sensitivity (I suggest everyone at least visit the site and have a read even if it’s not for you)and help you drop BF. I’m leaner and stronger following the leangains methods.

My goal was body re-comp and I’m more muscular and far leaner at my 175lbs after 5 weeks (I do Muay Thai within certain weight perameters) IF is pretty hard to screw up if you follow the basics. Perhaps combined with Indigo it’ll be even more effective - no doubt it will in fact.

Take home point: Suppliments are just one factor in achieving results, not the be all and end all.
To prove the point, look at the awesome bodies of the 60’s and 70’s. (before the steroid boom) Whole foods sensibly ingested to meet the individual’s goals, smart and hard training = great bodies.
No doubt I’ll give Indigo a blast…Biotest will make loadsa money I’m sure, and good for them.

Perhaps saving cash and just being a little smarter and patient is just as effective as Indigo in the long run. Spend the cash on something nice for your woman, you will be rewarded in more satisfying ways than feeling ‘anabolic all day’ while ‘all the nutrients are being suttled to the right place’.
Mini-rant over

The real test here is how much are people really willing to pay for the benefits of a product. Leangains style IF is relatively easy for me to do and I have seen results from it. I think the people that will benefit most from Indigo will be:

  1. People who easily gain fat while trying to put on muscle
  2. People who want to get lean while not worrying about what they eat
  3. People who want that edge for contest prep.

I seriously find some of the indigo logs humorous. There are some pretty obese people meticulously keeping track of things like grass-fed beef, omega-3 eggs, probably spending a lot of money on “healthy” food and LOTS of money on supplements when really they just need to eat less . I’ve been eating 2 large meals a day in an 8 hour window and I now find it funny that people need to eat every 3 hours or are getting hungry so often throughout the day. IF definitely desensitizes you to minor “stomach growlings”. I too have lost inches (2 to 3) around my stomach while maintaining strength on IF and cutting supplement usage.