T Nation

Incredible Cyborg Runner

This guy started so slowly he looked gone for all money, but then the turbo boosters kicked in…

These things are starting to get so good that they will soon be faster than athletes that have all their limps.

Which might give the whole doping debate a while new debate, soon they will test for hydraulic parts.

I see Oscar Pistorius (the blade runner) lost the 200m final and then complained the other guys legs were too long… I wonder how fast he was going at the end of that race hey!

I don’t know how in the hell they’re allowed to race together.
Let the bionics race each other. It’s no different than if someone else were using PEDs, w/o their “enhancements” they wouldn’t be capable of that.

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I don’t know how in the hell they’re allowed to race together.
Let the bionics race each other. It’s no different than if someone else were using PEDs, w/o their “enhancements” they wouldn’t be capable of that.[/quote]

I think its just fine the way they are. Its not an enhancement until you would be willing to lose a limb willingly to trade for it. Thats the difference in the PEDS. Once the tech gets to the point of people willing taking the amputation I’d say then we could compare it.

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I don’t know how in the hell they’re allowed to race together.
Let the bionics race each other. It’s no different than if someone else were using PEDs, w/o their “enhancements” they wouldn’t be capable of that.[/quote]

I think its just fine the way they are. Its not an enhancement until you would be willing to lose a limb willingly to trade for it. Thats the difference in the PEDS. Once the tech gets to the point of people willing taking the amputation I’d say then we could compare it.[/quote]

Nonetheless, its still a performance enhancement. Those runners wouldn’t be running as fast as they are if they had legs.

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I don’t know how in the hell they’re allowed to race together.
Let the bionics race each other. It’s no different than if someone else were using PEDs, w/o their “enhancements” they wouldn’t be capable of that.[/quote]

I think its just fine the way they are. Its not an enhancement until you would be willing to lose a limb willingly to trade for it. Thats the difference in the PEDS. Once the tech gets to the point of people willing taking the amputation I’d say then we could compare it.[/quote]

Nonetheless, its still a performance enhancement. Those runners wouldn’t be running as fast as they are if they had legs.[/quote]
They wouldn’t be running at all you dope, what do you want to watch a crawl race?

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I don’t know how in the hell they’re allowed to race together.
Let the bionics race each other. It’s no different than if someone else were using PEDs, w/o their “enhancements” they wouldn’t be capable of that.[/quote]

I think its just fine the way they are. Its not an enhancement until you would be willing to lose a limb willingly to trade for it. Thats the difference in the PEDS. Once the tech gets to the point of people willing taking the amputation I’d say then we could compare it.[/quote]

Nonetheless, its still a performance enhancement. Those runners wouldn’t be running as fast as they are if they had legs.[/quote]
They wouldn’t be running at all you dope, what do you want to watch a crawl race?[/quote]

You know what I meant, stop misconstruing my words.

I dont believe they should be racing either. Legs vs Prosthetics, its just not the same class.

I was going to make a lengthy post on why prosthetic running feet do not offer an inherent advantage over biological legs, but this article sums it up well

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2009/11/04-02.html

This looked at unilateral amputees. Oscar is bilateral and a bit of a unique case. He was born without fibulas and had, for lack of a better term, “ideal amputations” - meaning that the surgeon wasn’t amputating with saving his life as the primary concern (as would be seen in motorcycle accidents, heavy equipment trauma, etc). This gave him two very well-shaped stumps, which lend themselves well to running and impact sports. Many stumps caused by trauma are scarred, invaginated and have painful neuromas (nerve bundles) left in them - not ideal for running.

Oscar has two Ossur Cheetah running feet, which are custom made for him. As far as prosthetic running feet go these are the best of the best, however they’re not offering him any propulsion in the truest sense of the word - they’re simply redirecting the ground reaction force in a way conducive to sprinting. They do offer very good energy return, are lightweight, and do not require any oxygen. These points are usually raised by people who oppose Oscar running against able-bodied competitors, and they are all valid.

However, they pose a disadvantage at the starting blocks, as well as during the acceleration phase of the sprint. Bilat amputee sprinters lag during these phases, as there is more demand placed on the calf muscles they don’t have. They usually catch up halfway through the race when everyone has reached a steady cadence.

Do Oscar’s legs offer him an advantage? I don’t know. Further biomechanical testing is required - the first battery of tests he was subjected to had some serious flaws to them. Does the average amputee involved in sports have an advantage over the competition because of their carbon-fiber foot? Absolutely not.

The fact that they are able to act as springs is enough for me to oppose them. And I’m sure someone will say “What do you think your Achilles and other tendons do?”, but this isn’t an Achilles tendon. Period.

[quote]Mr Stern wrote:
I see Oscar Pistorius (the blade runner) lost the 200m final and then complained the other guys legs were too long… I wonder how fast he was going at the end of that race hey![/quote]

lol, when Pistorius objects to an opponent’s technological advantage, he makes a good argument against himself.

There are no standards… why not just in case a torso in a metal tube and put on fully robotic legs. Better yet lets throw away the meat and watch robots. Its obvious they are using there prosthesis to win. How far is to far? Oh be careful you might hurt little handicap, or is it special, or is it retard, or is it disabled, somethings challenged Jimmy’s feeling and he needs to compete to feel good about himself. Be careful of the Hyper-PC people they fiercely protect his right to comp-cheat.

Can someone explain this? I had no idea that there were races like this where the competitors have such vastly different disabilities. To me it seems totally pointless. You might as well make it an “open” event where anything and anyone can compete…

Obviously some have a major advantage over others because of the type of their disability and the prosthetic used. I don’t see how there can be any argument against this.

And here come the sensitive Canucks. lol

I’m Canadian btw.

I remember in high school, we had a paralympic swimming champion, had all her limbs, smart student, etc. She was like slightly blind in one or both eyes, like not completely blind, but probably not allowed to drive. Anyway and I’m sure you can see where this is going, we all used to joke around that she was just beating amputees and the mentally handicapped that were splashing around the pool. She wasn’t but it was good for a laugh.

I should add, she was very accomplished, literally “pride of the province”.

[quote]dirtman wrote:
There are no standards… why not just in case a torso in a metal tube and put on fully robotic legs. Better yet lets throw away the meat and watch robots. Its obvious they are using there prosthesis to win. How far is to far? Oh be careful you might hurt little handicap, or is it special, or is it retard, or is it disabled, somethings challenged Jimmy’s feeling and he needs to compete to feel good about himself. Be careful of the Hyper-PC people they fiercely protect his right to comp-cheat.[/quote]

Its not like its the real olympics. Get some perspective. Not one person here would chop off a fucking leg if they could suddenly be the paraolympic champion with some fake leg. Great you’re the fastest fucking runner in an event few care about where the entry fee is losing a fucking limb.

Here, please watch this video. This is a relatively new amputee who has been fitted for the exact same foot that Oscar Pistorius wears.

Start the video at around 1:20. You’ll notice a couple things:

1.) The foot is not “springing” him along in any way. There is no true ankle/foot propulsion here - running from a biomechanical standpoint is “controlled falling” and all the foot is doing is helping to do is get his centre of mass forward for the next stride. He’s not pogo-ing along like Inspector Gadget here.

2.) Look at the stride length of his prosthetic side - way shorter than that of his sound limb side. This will improve a bit with continued practice, but the learning curve on these feet is very steep - he’s not going to get a lot better. He’s moving that stump like crazy to try and keep up with his good leg. You’ll notice his commments below - his running times aren’t as good as they were pre-accident, and he feels tired a lot faster.

Just a bit of perspective here. I bet if you asked Oscar or any other amputee athlete, they’d tell you they’d rather have been born with actual legs rather than J-shaped carbon struts.

i think one of the arguments is that there is no lactic acid build up in the legs due to the fact they have none.

This vid in the OP is fucking weird. It’s freakshow type shit. Apparently there is a one legged high jump. I can only imagine what the fuck that is like.

Yes it is tragic they are disabled and they are to be admired. But a one legged high jump? GTFO. Freakshow.

Here you go yolo