Increasing Speed/Jumping Ability

[quote]djrobins wrote:
Just going to add a note - and not expert advice, but just to keep this thread going.

If I’m in the right mindset ( a power one ), doing verts AFTER squats or alternating SQUAT and vert jumps, makes the vert feel crisper and more powerful.

Its from the heavy loading of the squat being removed…

Of course if the squat is kicking your ass, then the vert will be down…[/quote]

if its a near max single… but not max (definitely cant have a psyche up IMO)… then ya you can get some stimulatory effects for subsequent jumps after a nice rest period and a small re-warmup.

your work capacity has to be great for that though… you cant be out of shape or one of those: “easily drained” people… to take advantage of the increase tonus/nervous system arousal, you can’t shut your nervous system down with the heavy single… i dont see how people could potentiate jumps using 5 reppers like in some studies, i’ve never seen it work before.

personally, max verts/running verts after squatting mess with my knees… I’d rather do speed ankle drills, or some kind of explosive vert with weight (ie a weighted pogo jump or a weighted jump squat)… the increase in load will decrease the velocity of triple extension etc, which i think is what seems to “not bug my knees”… im good at absorbing forces, so the velocity of triple extension is the only factor i can see that causes this accumulation of inflammation in my knees as the days progress… doesnt happen at all with light explosive strength movements.

i find that squatting is most powerful at potentiation verts/running verts the day after, or 2 days after… the potentiation is even bigger in this method…

peace

So should I do plyo’s right after a weight workout?

NO

[quote]George Costanza wrote:
So should I do plyo’s right after a weight workout?[/quote]

what are your experience with plyos?

generally no… unless you’re extremely experienced.

intense plyos: depth jumps, single leg bounds, alternate leg bounds… these take some experience in order to put them after a squat workout… simply just rushing in unprepared could result in knee tendonitis/strains etc… if you are not prepared to handle the fatigue from the lifting, then “things might not contract right” during the plyos, such as VMO etc, and that could lead to all types of patella pain etc.

in general, recommendations would be to just do the plyos before:

  • speed
  • power
  • heavy lifting
  • assistance
  • done

thats my advice…

peace

STIM stuff works as a short term boost to peak your jump, but it’s not a long term solution

same for plyos and all that crap

but if you want to boost your VJ from 30 to 44, your body needs to change drasticly and you need to work on creating a bigger foundation and more horsepower

hit the squat rack and live there!

Effects of muscle strengthening on vertical jump height: a simulation study.Bobbert MF, Van Soest AJ.
Department of Functional Anatomy, Faculteit Bewegingswetenschappen, Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

In this study the effects of systematic manipulations of control and muscle strength on vertical jump height were investigated. Forward dynamic simulations of vertical squat jumps were performed with a model of the human musculoskeletal system. Model input was STIM(t), stimulation of six lower extremity muscles as function of time; model output was body motion. The model incorporated all features of the musculoskeletal system of human test subjects considered salient for vertical jumping, and the initial body configuration was set equal to that of the test subjects. First, optimal STIM(t) was found for a standard version of the model (experiment A). A satisfactory correspondence was found between simulation results and kinematics, kinetics and electromyograms of the test subjects. Subsequently, optimal STIM(t) for the standard model was used to drive a model with strengthened muscles (experiment B). Jump height was now lower than that found in experiment A. Finally, optimal STIM(t) was found for the model with strengthened muscles (experiment C). Jump height was now higher than that found in experiment A. These results suggest that in order to take full benefit of an increase in muscle strength, control needs to be adapted. It is speculated that in training programs aimed at improving jumping achievement,muscle training exercises should be accompanied by exercises that allow athletes to practice with their changed muscles


here is a better desription of the above study

The purpose of this study was twofold: (a) to systematically investigate the effect of altering specific neuromuscular parameters on maximum vertical jump height, and (b) to systematically investigate the effect of strengthening specific muscle groups on maximum vertical jump height. A two-dimensional musculoskeletal model which consisted of four rigid segments, three joints, and six Hill-type muscle models, representing the six major muscles and muscle groups in the lower extremity that contribute to jumping performance, was trained systematically. Maximum isometric muscle force, maximum muscle shortening velocity, and maximum muscle activation, which were manipulated to simulate the effects of strength training, all had substantial effects on jumping performance.

Part of the increase in jumping performance could be explained solely by the interaction between the three neuromuscular parameters. It appeared that the most effective way to improve jumping performance was to train the knee extensors among all lower extremity muscles. For the model to fully benefit from any training effects of the neuromuscular system, it was necessary to continue to reoptimize the muscle coordination, in particular after the strength training sessions that focused on increasing maximum isometric muscle force.


get strong, practise jumping/sprinting a few days later :slight_smile:

A little writeup on that study

http://coachsci.sdsu.edu/csa/vol21/bobbert.htm

CONTROL AND PHYSICAL DEVELOPMENT OF STRENGTH

Bobbert, M. F., & Van Soest, A. J. (1994). Effects of muscle strengthening on vertical jump height: a simulation study. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 26, 1012-1020.

“Although a body of knowledge based on experience is very valuable, it still remains the task of investigators to substantiate training methods scientifically. The least scientists can do is offer practitioners a theoretical framework, from within which they can explain why some training programs or exercises have been more successful than others.” (p. 1012)

The relative importance of control (learned skill) and various properties of the musculoskeletal system will vary with the particular type of activity in which the athlete is engaged. Vertical jumping depends primarily on control (skill) and muscle strength. In reply to the question on which factors a training program should focus to improve jump height, most coaches will say that the answer depends on the athlete’s level of skill. They feel that in a novice athlete, supposed to have suboptimal control/skill, one can choose to try and improve either control or muscle strength. In an elite athlete, they will say, control is likely already to be optimal, so the focus in training should be on muscle strength. Consequently, to improve jumping height in expert volleyball players training aimed at increasing strength is advocated. Although in practice substantial gains in muscle strength may be achieved relatively easily, the corresponding effects on jump height are often quite inconclusive.

The adjustment of skill to changes in the physical properties of the strengthened muscle would be a critical factor to derive beneficial training effects from auxiliary training. Actual jumping achievement depends crucially on precise “timing” of muscle actions, that is, the skill of smooth coordination.

“If muscles are strengthened while control remains unchanged, jump height decreases rather than increases” (p. 1017). When control is not optimal, takeoff occurs prematurely and/or much muscular work is transformed into rotational energy segments at takeoff, so that the work is used less effectively. This implies that skill is paramount for jumping performance. Tuning control to system properties is a crucial step in maximizing vertical jump height (p. 1018). This supports the concept of having non-specific strength optimized prior to specific skill development.

The process of acquiring control skill is very time-consuming, involving weeks, months, or even years. Thus, when developing strength, it should be done at the same rate at which skill can be expected to change if it is done concurrently. For explosive actions, such as jumping, the learning of the skill relies heavily on pre-programmed muscle stimulation patterns (movement maps). Optimizing control takes at least several weeks of concentrated practice.

Muscle strength determines the maximal jump height that can be reached but actual performance relies crucially on the tuning of control to muscle properties. Muscle training exercises should be accompanied by exercises in which the athletes may practice with their changed muscle properties. Otherwise, athletes will not be able to adjust their control to benefit fully from the muscular improvements. Repetition of movement in which achievement is to be improved or, more precisely, repeatedly solving the task in which achievement is to be improved, seems indicated. Failure to do so may render training ineffective or even detrimental. Too strong an emphasis on muscle training exercises may be the reason for many failures to benefit from extra auxiliary training.

The critical feature in this consideration is the opportunity to practice the skill/control. In “simple” exercises like a vertical jump, the commonalty of the skill with leg extension in squats, squat jumps, and leg raises is quite high. Transfer of training effects could be expected. However, in a very complex and unnatural action such as swimming or kayak paddling, transfer may not be so easy. What would happen to a technique if only some of the many muscles involved were strengthened, or if all were strengthened but some more than others, is anyone’s guess. However, it could be anticipated that dysfunctional movement characteristics (e.g., out of balance, asymmetrical actions, disruptions in movement smoothness) would result causing performance to be affected detrimentally.

Consequently, dedicated strength training of less than a carefully planned, and obviously individual nature, could be quite detrimental to an athlete’s improvement. As long as skill improvements and analysis are emphasized, there is less likelihood that strength training will be counterproductive. However, if skill emphases remain at the same level as when no strength training was being conducted, it is likely that counter-productivity will be high. That counter-productivity will be increased in proportion to the complexity of the performance skill and the intended standard of performance

of those 3 parameters, we can increase Isometric force easily and by the most. Just get in the squat rack already!

muscle shortening velocity - depends on the weight of the object (bodyweight) and your strength, so it ties into 1

maximum muscle activation - can be optimised, but is pretty genetic, and ties into rate coding

Will i had some AWESOME gains in my vertical by doing Power Cleans. Just a suggestion though most of these guys probably know more then me.