T Nation

Increased T Cyp and Lost Libido?


#1

Ok first off if this is to far off topic for this forum please let me know, I have posted in the TRT forum but find the info there sometimes very limited so I want to check here, I am using T cyp for TRT have been for 5 years there have been ups and downs but mostly all good I will never stop using T! My question is: I was using 200mg cyp every 6 days, 500mg HCG E/3, taking AI 1/2 pill EOD I was good my test has always been around 850 to 1300 FT34 to 39. I switched Dr’s a month ago new Doc drops the HCG and up’s my T cyp to 200mg every 3 days and tells me to stay the same on my AI. Well after using this new protocol my libido tanks so I up my AI to 5.5 but still not much of a change. Any idea whats going on? I liked the idea of 400mg a week from what I have read most of the non TRT guys would say 400mg E6 is low.


#2

Why did your doc take you off hcg? You and your Dr don’t want to preserve your testes size and function any longer? Could be other factors as well.

I believe you tanked your e2 since you’re off hcg, are at +400 mg test per week and 5.5 mg of arimidex per week. You changed too many variables at once in my opinion. I’d try first coming off your ai for a week and see if libido returns and if so reduce your ai dose.

I’d that doesn’t work, add hcg back in.

If that doesn’t work then your e2 may have been high and more ai is needed.

You’re really flying blind and can only guess without lab work.


#3

Thanks for the reply, This new Dr. took me off hcg because he said it only helps produce my natural test and that my natural test was so low that I needed TRT then taking hcg to keep producing that little amount of test is a waste and that by bumping me to 400mg E6 I would never notice the loss of the hcg. That was the first thing he did that I didn’t agree with. I am 53 so testes function is not a concern but I don’t want them to shrink. “changed too many variables at once in my opinion” Your right I did. As for “I believe you tanked your e2 since you’re off hcg” can you explain the relationship of hcg causing e2 to tank, I thought more test causes e2 to go up? That is why I raised my arimidex when I first lost my libido, I though the addition of the extra 200mg cy caused my e2 to go up. As for the AI when it gets to low I feel like crap, I have tried lots of doses and found taking 2.5 to 3.5mg AI a week has kept me at a E2 around 18-22 I feel best when it’s in that range. I know I am flying bling without blood work and I will be getting it done in a few weeks, I wish I could afford to get it more often but at 300.00 a pop I can’t. So I am trying to fix my self blind. I know I can go back to my old protocol 200mg cy E6, 500mg hcg E3 and 2.5 AI E6 and within 10days I will be back to my normal. But if 400mg cy E6 is better and I can have a new better normal I want it. For the record I do lift 3 times a week and try to eat right. As for why I switched Dr’s, my old Dr’s staff messed up every order every appointment almost every payment for 5 years and I couldn’t put up with it anymore… but I might have to go back to him, only thing is he will not prescribe more than 200mg E6…
Again thanks for your help


#4

HCG is actually gonna increase aromatization a bit… without it, you’ll have less likelihood of converting testosterone to estrogen.


#5

That is quite an excessive amount of arimidex, which leads me to believe your E2 is low. My libido disappears when my E2 is too low from taking too much arimidex.


#6

Thanks for the info.


#7

Thanks Juggs, I have always been told 1mg AI for every 100mg test, is that to much in your opinion? I am going to lower my AI to 2.5 a week and see how it feels. Man I hate loosing the sweet spot!


#8

Yes I hear that thrown around a lot, and sometimes by reputable people too, but once you get to a certain point, it can all but halt aromatization. Most AAS users on 500-600mg of test are only taking 0.5mg of adex EOD. And you surely don’t see many people on a gram or more taking 10+ mg of adex. So I think it’s linear to a point, and that point is probably around 200mg. I personally take 0.25-0.5mg EOD of adex depending on how I feel and my test dose is 200mg but sometimes randomly my doc will write it out to 210 (I don’t complain).

Some aromatize more, and some less. Some overrespond to adex, and some underrespond. That’s why blood work is so important. It’s hard to draw an exact line in the sand, but I’d say if your E2 is under 18-20pg/ml that is probably the cause. My libido starts getting wonky under 18.


#9

Thanks, The strange thing is I was taking 3.5mg when I was taking 200mg this was a mistake, my wife started filling my pill box and put .5 every day when it should have been .5 5 times a week= 2.5 a week. This has been going on for a few months now, I just found that out tonight. But I felt fine on that 200mg cyp E6D and 3.5mg AI a week but when I went to 200mg E3D I tanked so I added .5 3 days a week making my AI 5mg a week but I only feel a very little bit better. I am going to drop the AI to 2mg a week and see what happens. I am only going through this because I want to hit the GYM hard for a few months using 400mg E6D but I don’t see staying on 400 for ever, 200mg was going good. Thanks again for your help


#10

I agree with Juggs and cyco. The 1mg arimidex/100mg test doesn’t seem to be linear when you start pushing higher test doses which I’ve at least validated with myself.

I’ve found that’s a good standard until I approach and surpass 300 mg test/week.

Again, I think you should get back on hcg. I’m done having kids too but our testes do have other functions besides creating sperm and if they atrophy enough, some men report aching.

I also think your e2 is bottomed out. It would be faster to verify this by simply dropping your ai for a full week and seeing if you begin to feel better. Then I would reintroduce your ai, possibly starting with 1mg anastrazole e3d on your injection days.

That may change slightly depending on if/when you reintroduce hcg.

You really need to pick a protocol and stay on it for a few weeks and then get labs done to make intelligent changes along with how you feel.


#11

Thanks, I am going to get back on hcg today. I understand what ya’ll are saying about the AI not being linear, I was using way to much AI before I started the extra 200mg Cyp and way way to much after. Good Idea on dropping the AI for a week, worse can happen is I feel the way I have been but I might notice a sweet spot as I pass through it and then if I feel bad again I will know I was bottomed out for sure. I will be getting labs done as soon as I can stick to a dose for two weeks. I wish blood work wasn’t so expensive.
Thanks for your input,