T Nation

Increased LH = Increased Test?

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/90/5/2595[/quote]

That was a good read!

Did I read correctly at the end there that the lower levels of hCG vs the infertility levels adminstered don’t require estradiol control for most people?

Or “shouldn’t” require I should say.

[quote]patricio2626 wrote:
Absolutely fascinating. So, then, HCG could boost test levels without the risk of shutdown? I suppose this would be considerably less benificial in terms of anabolism than a standard AAS cycle? Would this ‘desensitize’ any part of the endocrine system over time?

Would there be any negatives associated with this, if estrogen levels were kept in check with an AI? [/quote]

No, I would not say without risk of shutdown of LH production. It would depend on the dose and estrogen levels.

It’s something I’ve wanted to test for a while but have not done so. I do expect that a moderate dose such as 100 IU/day combined with letrozole at a dose keeping estrogen low normal probably allows normal LH production, but haven’t proved it.

On whether most need (in the sense of require to avoid problems) an AI with HCG use at these low levels: No, most don’t.

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Dopa,

Do you know if your extremely high estradiol level was exacerbated by the 250IU EOD hCG you ran for 1 month or was this imbalance present before and after?
[/quote]

Very much exacerbated. I even ran it at 100 IU per day for awhile and had a hell of a time keeping my estradiol levels even with an AI.

I seemed to be particularily sensitive to aromatisation to estrogen until I started taking low dose Lithium. I went from taking 100 IU ED with 2.5mg Letrozole ED, to 0.25mg Arimidex EOD (and that was probably too much.)

I don’t know why Lithium helps with estrogen control, and I haven’t found any literature supporting it. I came upon it by accident. Don’t ask me why it works. I’m not even sure it would work for anyone else.

Another comparison… when I was taking 200mg test per week 2.5mg Letrozole ED barely kept my estradiol in range. 1mg Arimidex or 25mg Aromasin did practically nothing. Now with Lithium 500mg Testosterone per week can be controlled with 0.25mg of Arimidex EOD.

When I started taking 150mg Lithium per day my joints were aching like crazy so I had to drastically reduce my AI dosages.

Very interesting finding with the lithium.

Your experience with needed doses of AI’s was as I’m sure you know very atypical. It’s good that you found something that worked in your particular case, as I tend to think that quite likely no one on Earth could have figured, without your having tried it, that lithium would help your estrogen problem!

If any are wondering about it for themselves: If a person is not in a situation where even 2.5 mg letrozole per day barely keeps his estrogen in range – and almost nobody is there – then I would not even begin to think that lithium should be looked at in that person’s case, as personal opinion.

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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Lithium is an anti-psychotic medication. What made you think of using it to control E?

BBB[/quote]

Actually, technically it’s a mood stabilizer more similar to anti-convulsants in that regard.

I’m using it to help control my seasonal depression (summer and winter). It had an unexpected result of drastically increasing the effectiveness of the AI’s I was using. Through which mechanism I have no idea.

I’m not sure if lithium is effecting the metabolism of the AI’s or it’s effect lies some where else.

Typical dosages are 900mg to 1500mg per day. For some reason I can only tolerate 150mg per day before I start getting side effects.

As Bill said, I wouldn’t recommend this for anyone else. It’s effect on me could be an anomaly.

When I brought it up on the Meso HRT board awhile back a member there mentioned in hindsight his estrogen levels were much lower when he was supplementing with lithium orotate.

He didn’t put two and two together until I mentioned it. He couldn’t understand why his estrogen levels were lower than normal at the time with the same AI dose.

Thanks for the information Dopa. Very interesting.