T Nation

Increase HCG to Increase Sperm Count?


#1

Okay I'll try and keep this short:

Fiance started TRT with test & arimidex, 125mg test e per week, 3/4 1mg tab of arimidex per week. Worked perfectly, put his e in the lower end of normal range, and t in upper end of normal range.......then we got a sperm count done months later and it basically came back at zero, zilch, zippo.

So armed with this result, we convinced the doc to add in 500iu hcg per week, to keep the tested "ticking over" (he's only 30 and we want kids soon)...........3-4 months later retested and sperm count came back at 20million (per whatever the measure is) or so (low end of normal, but still not too shabby for pregnancy purposes). THEN just recently the pharmaceutical company stopped making the 500iu amps and as such, he ran out, and could only get to the doc for a new script (a new one, a fertility expert, kinda irrelevant) after approx 6 weeks without it - another sperm test came back as near zero again.

SO, this new doc has prescribed 1,500iu per week (in an effort for us to actually get pregnant).....my question is, given that 500iu per week gave him a 20million sperm count, can we expect an increase on that with the 3 x dose of hcg??

In case it matters, before he started on TRT, his sperm count was 97million.

Thanks guys!


#2

I would split the hCG into 500iu 2-3 times per week.

When you want to start trying for children add in hMG.


#3

Here is another case of a doctor who doesn't have a clue. DO NOT INCREASE THE HCG DOSE TO 1500IU. He's going to be an E2 disaster! Swap HCG for HMG and keep the dose at 500IU. HMG acts strongly at the LH and FSH receptors and will drastically increase sperm count. HCG acts very weakly at FSH receptors.


#4

The problem with HMG is that it's reeeeally expensive here in OZ (probably there too I have no idea). So we were kinda hoping that the HCG would suffice? But is a higher dose going to increase sperm count of is 500iu probably the point of diminishing returns anyway??


#5

You should not need to go above 5001u - 2 - 3 times per week, higher will make no difference.

If you want to maximise fertility then hMG is a necessity. If I remember the research fertility will only be around 20% of normal with hCG only.


#6

from what I have read/research/talked with doctors about - over 500iu to 1000iu of HCG a week can cause all sorts of problems.

HCG mimics TSH - so too much can cause anxiety and all sorts of hyperthyroid symptoms.

HCG can also desensitize the Ledig cells in the testicles which could actual cause a decrease in fertility the longer you stay on it.


#7

Great, thanks - we might consider halving the dose if it's not going to make any positive effect on fertility (and a potential big negative).

Can you point me to any of the research you've read on this specific topic? I can't seem to find any.

Also, what sort of increase might be seen with the inclusion of HMG and what sort of time frame to bring it up?

Thanks


#8

mods don't like a lot of external links being posted - I found most of my information through google searches. Try searching for "leydig cells hcg desensitize" and "hcg mimics TSH" without the quotes of course.

You may want to try a slight increase and increase the frequency - maybe try 200-250iu EOD or E3D. That is the standard dosage range (Ksman likes 250iu EOD - but that is too high for me personally).


#9

Okay so I did a bit a research and that makes a bit more sense now.....however the dosages at which point desensitization occurs seems to be quite substantially varied??

I think we'll just er on the side of caution and just split a 1500iu amp over 2 weeks.

Does anybody know what sort of an increase (% perhaps?) in sperm count the inclusion of Hmg can induce?


#10

x 5


#11

In what sort of time frame? 3 months or so?


#12

Go to pubmed online do a search on hMG, hCG and fertility. You will find all the info there - success rates, sperm counts, dosages etc etc