Increase Cals for Keto?

I have slowly whittled down my carb intake over several months during a cut. My body has been flirting with keto for about a week or so, with a trace amount of ketones (using ketostix), as I have eliminated my carb refeed.

I am only going to try keto for 2-4 weeks. Since I will no longer be using carbs for energy, should I increase my fat intake slightly to compensate or just eliminate that final 10g of carbs and be done with it? Current carbs on work out days is 55g, with 30g on off days.

What does your daily macros look like and how much do you weight at what current fat%?

Workout days:
230p, 45c, 60f

Off days:
230p, 30c, 65f

Weight:
210 down from 255 (haven’t really established stasis, yet)

BF:
No clue… 15-25. I can see the outer vertical cuts of my abs. Loose skin makes it hard to tell.

Looks quite okay. Are you still losing fat at the current intake? If you need to go lower I wouldn’t up the fat but I’d do a carb-up meal once a week (around 200grams, from good healthy sources). How much cardio are you doing?

If you are on the verge of Ketosis, your body might still be increasing glucogenic enzymes. One problem at going under 100 grams for a long time is that it can LOWER insulin sensitivity because the body needs to conserve glucose for the brain.

What are the advantages of going into Ketosis? I have read that you should add MCT rich cals like 100-200 cals of coconut oil, but I don’t know fully why. I will research. I think that Ketosis is recommended as a method of autophagy. Its supposed to clear out early stage tumors and damaged structural proteins and enzymes, but it is not really supposed to do anything for body composition.

I personally think that body comp need to be reduced by maintaining at least 100 grams of carbs a day average, but cycling. One day at 200 and three at 50 for example. Again though, your body will still adapt to make more glucose from fats and BCAAs. The best long term insulin sensitivity occurs at about 100-200 grams of carbs a day, perhaps right around 1 gram per pound of lean BW, plus about 50 grams per hour of typical training.

I was doing a carb refeed (skiploading protocol: all I can eat processed carbs with low fat, fiber, and HFCS). I began at 6 hours and did that for some time, and transitioned down to no refeed. You both mentioned around 200g for the refeed; is this coincidence or really what you think I should be doing. Under the protocol, I took in considerably more, but would usually baseline around Thursday/Friday after my Sunday refeed w/ the 6 hours.

You’re supposed baseline on Wednesday, so I usually ended up having around a 4.5-5 hour window; I’m not sure what this says about my insulin sensitivity or the role of carbs in my diet.

I lift 4x/week, HIIT 2x/week, and walk on an incline 2-4x/week (closer to 2, lately). I think increasing cardio would help things, but the investment in time is not worth it to me at this point. Considering the metabolic damage article on here (Teta), I was going to eliminate the HIIT next week and take it kind of easy for the next few weeks as an eat less/exercise less cycle; my body could probably use the rest as well.

My fatloss has pretty much slowed to nothing, which is OK - but not ideal - with me. I am considering this as kind of the “bottom” of my cut and am primarily doing ketosis just because I’m so close, I might as well see what it’s like for a few weeks. After the few weeks in keto, I was going to reintroduce the carbs and calories through both refeeds and daily intake, while refocusing on strength (maybe a gain of 1 lb/month, which would probably just be water weight from the carbs).

Thanks for the help, so far

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
If you are on the verge of Ketosis, your body might still be increasing glucogenic enzymes. One problem at going under 100 grams for a long time is that it can LOWER insulin sensitivity because the body needs to conserve glucose for the brain.

What are the advantages of going into Ketosis? I have read that you should add MCT rich cals like 100-200 cals of coconut oil, but I don’t know fully why. I will research. I think that Ketosis is recommended as a method of autophagy. Its supposed to clear out early stage tumors and damaged structural proteins and enzymes, but it is not really supposed to do anything for body composition.

I personally think that body comp need to be reduced by maintaining at least 100 grams of carbs a day average, but cycling. One day at 200 and three at 50 for example. Again though, your body will still adapt to make more glucose from fats and BCAAs. The best long term insulin sensitivity occurs at about 100-200 grams of carbs a day, perhaps right around 1 gram per pound of lean BW, plus about 50 grams per hour of typical training. [/quote]

I believe the coconut oil thing is because it’s a medium-chain fatty acid, and is used readily for energy, much like a carb, but without the insulin spike.

yep up your good fats, if going very low carb you can get away with a suprising amount.

I’m curious how it worked out for you?

I don’t read the forums regularly enough – so sorry this is so late.

I do well on it, but tend to loose strength as I drop weight. I also tend to overeat proteins and that can kick you out of ketosis. Lastly, I also tend to de-rail myself at family events like birthdays and X-mas.

I would have advised you to up your Fat Calories to something like 65% of your total calorie intake.

Supposedly the brain does just fine without glucose – and uses ketones instead for energy. The metabolic pathways are well understood and have been examined since the 1970s. It has been prescribed to kids/adults with epilepsy with some success (but it doesn’t work for all epileptics). It is considered relatively save as long as you are not diabetic.

A generic guideline for a ketogenic diet is here (not sure I can cross-link to another forum): http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=132598293

And here (pretty sure it is the same content): Joseph Arcita: A Guide to Ketosis

(Google: guide to ketosis)

There is support for its benefits in the literature too (but I’m far from an expert myself). You can do a search on any of these in pubmed to read more:

Weight loss and body composition changes following three sequential cycles of ketogenic enteral nutrition
The effects of the ketogenic diet on behavior and cognition
Beyond weight loss: a review of the therapeutic uses of very-low-carbohydrate (ketogenic) diets
Ketosis and appetite-mediating nutrients and hormones after weight loss
Low-Carbohydrate Diets: A Matter of Love or Hate
A New Look at Carbohydrate-Restricted Diets
Physiological Roles of Ketone Bodies as Substrates and Signals in Mammalian Tissues
Differential Metabolic Effects of Saturated Versus Polyunsaturated Fats in Ketogenic Diets
A pilot case study on the impact of a self-prescribed ketogenic diet on biochemical parameters and running performance in healthy and physically active individuals
Very-low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet v. low-fat diet for long-term weight loss: a meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials

Well, it worked. BUT, I didn’t go “all in.”

I only did the keto for about 2 weeks, and I was barely into it.

I went like this:
-relatively low carb for a couple weeks using the macros above and either a cheat meal or a 1 hour refeed 1x/week
-I then did a 24 hour fast instead of my weekly refeed. I never entered keto until I did this fast, and even then, I detected a rather low amount of ketones
-I suffered some headaches around this time. I don’t know if this is normal.
-Within a day or 2 of hitting keto, I dropped 2 lbs after stalling for several weeks. I lost another 1 - 1.5 pounds throughout that week. I didn’t feel comfortable with this rate of loss, so I increased the fats slightly (5-10g/week)
-I lost another 1.5-2 lbs the following week
-I then did a cheat meal that knocked me out of keto and haven’t been in it since
-I’ve lost another 1-1.5 lbs since being out of keto and have continued with refeeds/cheats

Concurrently with all of this, I adjusted my training. I eliminated HIIT and phased out my walking and decreased my training frequency from 4x/week to every other day (so like 3-3.5x/week); this likely played a roll in helping the metabolism.

I’ve felt rather moody throughout all of this, but this can be due to some issues elsewhere in my life. Currently, I feel physically more energetic, but am still struggling with the mood issues.

I’ve experienced the mood swings when I was trying to reduce calories.