T Nation

In Trouble with my TRT, Need Help/New Labs

Go for it man. Don’t you already have recent labs you can give them? Might not even need new ones.

Low t nation is who I used for a bit. They are 300 and that includes everything monthly. So pay the 300 and they’ll get the blood test don’t and get I started . I jsut called in with my current blood work and they started me within a few days.

No clue bro. Honestly you don’t have the cash flow to be able to decide. call them and ask them what they would do for a high shbg . Tell them 150 is not working and what happened. Be up front.

If they say ahhh shbg high = more T is needed, then you hit the jackpot.

Do other men a favor and leave a review of your last doc and there stupid fear of Trt. People need to know there dealing with docs who have not kept up with the times and are practicing like it’s 1920.

Defy quoted me at around 500 for initial labs and consult and $129 for a vial of test cyp, a 10ml vial at 200mg per ml. That was just this week.

If you can swing the monthly fee for hormones, Use a credit card for the initial costs. I’m normally not an advocate for debt, but this is your health bro

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There are some who only need TRT, labs increase if thyroid problems are suspected and a thyroid panel shot the price of my labs substantially because I wanted to leave no doubts. Sure I could have gone with minimal labs, in the end I choose spent north of $600 for labs.

There are some guys who will become magnesium deficient on TRT, I ordered a magnesium RBC test for $130 on top of the thyroid panel and mandatory labs needed for Defy to be able to treat you.

I never heard of Royal Medical, I doubt many could compete with Defy’s pricing and Dr. Saya’s expertise.

I’m going for it, It’s my most affordable option right now. Before I review the company, does anyone know what the guidelines are on this forum for reviewing a company? I don’t want to sing anyone’s praises or trounce them if there is a forum guideline restricting it.

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I doubt there are guidelines, as evidenced in the post just prior to yours.

Not what I mean sir. I’ve seen the praises of different institutions posted throughout threads on this site, yet I’ve never seen an individual say equally negative things about any “specific” institution from having a terrible experience.
Though members may have some extremely negative things to say specifically about an institution, I haven’t seen it posted in this forum since I’ve been here…hence the question.
To negate the idea that there aren’t some really shiesty organizations out there that do us in one fashion or another, is to say that there are only subpar try companies and there are excellent ones with little in between.

I have seen institutions trashed on the web however.
After doing some late night research last night I found that the one I’m looking at as an option is no stranger to these comments.

Should my chosen route be extremely negative, should I keep my opinions to myself i.e. buyer beware?

I see, and I also do not recall anyone putting anything particularly negative about a specific doctor or business on the forum. Always the other way around and usually it is just the one.

I suppose the moderator can rule on that, but as long as it is professionally written and not posted over and over I am guessing it would be allowed. However, what would be the point in using their name unless they market themselves nationally and your intent is to save others from going through the same experience?

I spoke to someone at Defy who put opening costs at around a little under $700 and broke it down to $1500-1800 annually. I won’t post the whole email I have but this is these are some of the statements made.

“With the labs, we have an initial panel of 11 tests that we need on file prior to scheduling your consultation, we have discounted pricing set up with Labcorp, so that panel is $279.”

“Regarding the physical, I will send you a blank physical form you may have completed by your PCP”
Out of pocket for me will be $170

“The initial consultation is $250 and would be scheduled for one hour with one of our physicians”

“Total annual costs(on average, as every patient is going to differ) are around $1500-$1800(this estimate includes medications, follow up labs and consults), so you can divide that by 12, which comes to about $125-$150 per month on average. This would be for Labs, consults and medications.”

Not bad at all gentlemen. Compared to other costs I’ve seen for the level of care they offer, it is an unbelievably inexpensive and great service for the money. I’ve heard many more positive things than negative ones. I really want to pursue their services if the one I’m looking at doesn’t pan out. It will be at least 6 months before it is an option for me though.

My only concern with Royal Medical is that they will compound an AI into their Testosterone…not good…I’ll know more on Wednesday or Thursday.


I don’t follow. If you are saying that I have specifically mentioned the name of the organization, practice, or Nurse Practitioner I’ve seen, that is incorrect, I have not mentioned any names. Can you better explain what you are referencing?

Yes, highpull that is specifically what I would like to do. They have been hard to dig up a whole lot of information on, their company is not the absolute exception. A business’s purpose is to make money and avoid losing money. In this industry, lawsuits are abundantly advertised, perhaps unfairly.
I found them along with a slew of other companies on the internet with some fairly dodgy advertising practices. Some companies change names, websites, etc…to distances themselves from financial, legal, and a myriad of other problems.

I joined this forum for the support and guidance of others. You have definitely been helpful in helping me along, as have others.
I really want to do the same for people entering into this journey. Empirical data is trumping many medical widespread opinions on trt. Even the trt communities are divided. How much have I studied on the importance of AI’s in all protocols for example, this is just one area that probably messed a lot of guys up. Now I hear AI’s are much more feared as a “every-man” protocal industry standard as of recent.
I am here because I want to learn and help others eventually.
I wish to be an example and be able to offer experience down the road.

I am not saying that. I said this:

“I also do not recall anyone putting anything particularly negative…”

Then I say go ahead. We are all reporting our own experiences and learning from others.

My mistake and my apologies for misunderstanding. Thank you for clarifying.

I value this community and its experiences. I would be proud to be able to contribute something of use to others. All of you have contributed something to helping my experiences so far. Even debated subjects have been extremely useful, and give pause for thought and reconsideration.

It has been my experience that it is more useful to me to be wrong and learn over wanting to be right and being wrong. The ego is a powerful drug and I do much better when mine is within healthy ranges.

You are headed down a road that leads to suffering, everyone who has come in here who has their Test+AI compounded together is no longer getting services from these clinics. Defy Medical will refuse an AI unless a need for one exists, labs and symptoms.

Heard. I don’t know if this is a standard practice of theirs but it was standard in a review from 2016. I’m hoping Royal has changed with the times. I clearly don’t need an AI right now and I hope I don’t ever have to use one. From what I’ve studied, they are losing their place in trt communities.

There are men on both ends of the spectrum, there are some men who never have enough estrogen on TRT, then there are those that have too much and both high/low estrogen have symptoms. Sometimes AI’s are needed and for a short amount of time until weight is lost, mostly though AI’s are overprescribed.

This is my understanding. It seems like over time there were many camps on the subject and a great deal of division about the use of different AI’s and AI’s in general. I’m very glad there less diversion between groups these days, it paints a somewhat more understandable picture.

I really want to study to study HCG soon. I understand HCG’s method of action on the Testes by simulating a Hypothalamic Pituitary response, but it has some poor press from the majority of credible authorities in trt.

Other than to stimulate a response in Testicular cell production for aesthetics or fertility, what is it’s use and why do men feel bad on it? Do you know?

Frankly, I wouldn’t mind getting my gonads back to regular size and producing natural Testosterone plus maybe having a higher Estrogen to Testosterone ratio.

If you look at my labs in the OP, I am curious as a weekly injector of 100mgs why my Estrogen levels are so low at peak plasma levels of Testosterone. Any thoughts on this?

RE Magnesium, if you train you should take a zinc magnesium supplement anyway. Plenty of good ZMA supplements can be had for $15 month worth. Plus as an added benefit taken right before bed they help you sleep

Does Dr Saya push AI and hCG? I really want to avoid the AI if at all possible and I already have 3 kids so not worried with the fertility benefits of hCG

I take Zinc. I thought maybe I should stop for awhile since there are suggestions that this drops Estrogen to low ranges. Your thoughts?

I take Magnesium as well but right now it’s elemental Magnesium. I think Magnesium D-gluconate might be better. Elemental Magnesium, like Magnesium Citrate, gives me the runs bad.

I had not heard or read that zinc drops estrogen. There may be some merit to that, my E was in the gutter 4 weeks ago when I got labs prior to TRT, however that may have been due to my super low levels of free and total T and high levels of SHBG.

I have read widespread and multiple sources that a ZMA supplements are very beneficial to those who weight train consistently