T Nation

In the UK and Struggling


For a while now had depression / anxiety issues. Now have zero libido, no motivation, irritability, gum disease, poor sleep, loss of strength and fat on the belly. Lack of emotional feelings or desire to do anything leading to frustration and anger are the main issues.

I’ve read the stickies, or ex-stickies, and think I follow most of them

Been to the doctor after finally getting appointment. To his credit didn’t want to stick me on SSRI a 3rd time, wanted to do blood checks. I gave him the list I’d copied out from here of hormonal, thyroid and adrenal. He said oh yes we’ll cover all that. On checking hes going to cover E2, he says no that’s a female hormone we never check in men, even if they have breast cancer. Then he goes on to ask where this all comes from, I explain this site. He asks what happens if E2 is too high then? I explain AI etc. He asks where is this done? The US I say. Instant dismissal “Oh we would never do that here!”. Mmm so Americans are biologically different I think…

Anybody ever got very far with this in the UK? And if not where is it worth complaining to? Im sick of getting the patronising doctor fob off. This is my third time of trying

Age: 38yr 10mth
Height: 5ft 10in
Waist: 32in
Weight: 154lbs

Describe body and facial hair: Reasonable facial hair, full head of hair, on body heavy patch on chest and stomach, finer hair all over, thicker on calves and forearms.

Describe where you carry fat and how changed: pot belly stomach, a little around the back and on chest. Always like this

Health conditions, symptoms: Gingivitis bleeding gums, dry flaky skin on scalp particularly

Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever: None

Thyroid: Temperature 36C on waking 36.5C pm. However may be digital thermometer issue, my wife is similar, and doctor said it was fine today. Didn’t catch what he said it was though

Lab results with ranges:
Not back yet

Describe diet: Oats and milk am, lunch chicken with sweet potatoes or similar, family dinner meat + veg home cooked fresh, supper likely oats and milk again.

Describe training: Just down to gym 2x week whole or half body weight train. Strength levels slowly going down, cant do what I used to.

Testes ache, ever, with a fever? Not noticeably

How have morning wood and nocturnal erections changed: Less of them nowadays. Probably not as strongly either. no nocturnal


Can you differentiate between no motivation and lack of energy?

Any issues feeling cold? Sparse outer eyebrows?

Any exposure to toxins at work or hobbies?

Does you wife suffer from any similar issues?

Any medication history?


How many years eating oats+milk? - reason for this?


hmm interesting questions specially that first one. I think I have both. Sometimes I have some energy but get a “what’s the point” feeling, veering into a depression. Other times there’s stuff I need to do, but feel flat out. Do the two things indicate different causes or routes to take?

Yes I feel cold particularly in hands and feet. Often thought it might be poor circulation, but never proved it, just what you commonly think. Once I get cold outside I feel it right into my insides and takes a while to reheat myself. Eyebrows are definitely thicker inner end. Cant say I’ve noticed them before, but yes do thin out at ends.

I’d say no toxins, but then again I’m a window cleaner climbing and carrying an aluminium ladder all day. I end up with dark grey hands from it. Could that be a problem?

Again I’d say my wife doesn’t, but talking with her today its possible she might be getting menopausal, she’s older than me a little. Are you thinking of the low temperature? Or just environment / food?

Medication history - had a spell on citalopram 20mg for 3-4 months. that was probably 7 years ago off the top of my head. Probably 5 years ago fluoxetine 20mg 2-3 months. both knocked libido on the head each time. Never got back to as good as before each time.

Supplements - only protein powder. my doctor said not to take it as it would skew my blood test. mmmmm. never any steroids etc, only whey isolate, maltodextrin, and creatine sometimes.

Long time with the oats, as a kid we had cereal with milk and always had the habit. Just swapped the sugary frosties for oats that’s all. Its just dead cheap and quickest thing to prepare rather than bothering with cooking eggs, or whatever else. So laziness I suppose. And also felt a good appetite filler and calorie provider, perhaps not the best choice I admit.

I don’t know if any of the above suggests anything to you? Im going to check out the Iodine that you mention a few times, I’m going to re-read what you’ve written about that. I’ve no idea whether we still get Iodine in milk in the UK now. With the EU changing the homologisation of it there might be a chance we don’t

Thanks for your reply


With those responses, I suspect a thyroid problem has lowered your metabolic rate.

In the UK, I think that dairy is considered a major source of iodine.
You could be this way from an iodine deficiency or you have a thyroid gland problem.

You can evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures:

  • when you first wake up, 97.7-97.8F would be good, 97.6 is a problem
  • also check for 37C/98.6F mid-afternoon

Also check your wife’s temperatures. If she gets good temperatures and you don’t, you then have more confidence in the thermometers readings. Many thermometers create doubts.

Many here have T and thyroid problems and many of the symptoms of each are the same.

fT4 [please not T3, T4]

In the one sticky in this forum, in the second post, find the link for the thyroid basics explained thread.

Overall, thyroid problems are much more challenging that TRT.


Thanks for the reply. Right I’ll re-read that sticky again, I’ve gone through it before and thought I perhaps tick more boxes in that than TRT, its good to have your confirmation too.

I’ll check my wifes temp again, she did a check at the same time as me before and got same lower temperatures. I’m going to try and get a mercury one too.

The labs are in the hands of the NHS, I do hope they have what you’ve asked for. My list of specifics was just pushed back at me. I got the blood drawn this morning, results appointment 2 weeks


Checked my results this afternoon prior to doctors appointment. The wide ranging results are as follows:

Serum testosterone 17.8nmol/L (11.4-27.9)
Serum TSH 2.5mU/L (0.27-4.2)

and that’s it. I also got results for blood count, bone profile, liver lipid and urea and electrolytes. The only thing out of range on any of these was

eGFR using creatinine 89mL/min (90.0-200.0)
It came with a note to say can be affected by extremes of muscle mass and high protein diet. But not which way it was affected.

I suspect asking again for further tests of free T, E2, fT3, fT4 and rT3 will be met with much resistance and the cure-all of anti-depressants offered.