T Nation

In Search of a New Diet

I’m looking for a new diet or plan to follow from this website. I’ve seen references to an “Anabolic Diet” and other mentions of other “diet plans” but I can’t find anything. The info for the V-Diet was easily obtained. Any suggestions?

Thanks

I’m a fan of Berardi’s 7 habit of highly effective nutritional programs.

what are your goals?

the anabolic diet is wrought with errors (and this is coming from someone who actually bought the book). In all honesty it just isn’t a good diet. (too low protein, to high fat, vague and silly carb-up recommendations)

I would suggest learning how to set up your own diet (it’s not that hard) and following it day-in-and-day-out. persistence will get you further than any magic diet.

if you want to know how to set up a diet, just ask.

I agree with JMo. In the end you should be able to set up your own nutritional plan with what works best for YOU. The process of learning these things takes a little while to get onto and basicly just try things.

These of course are depending on your goals, but with the proper knowledge you should be able to make up a diet plan with any sort of goals in mind.

If you give us some stats/goals we can give you a guideline for a couple of things you might want to try but in the end it all comes down to what works best for you.

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
the anabolic diet is wrought with errors (and this is coming from someone who actually bought the book). In all honesty it just isn’t a good diet. (too low protein, to high fat, vague and silly carb-up recommendations)[/quote]

Yikes.

If you had actually read the anabolic diet you would know that Mauro says the diet is to be adjusted to your individual goals and metabolism.

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
the anabolic diet is wrought with errors (and this is coming from someone who actually bought the book). In all honesty it just isn’t a good diet. (too low protein, to high fat, vague and silly carb-up recommendations)

Yikes.

If you had actually read the anabolic diet you would know that Mauro says the diet is to be adjusted to your individual goals and metabolism.
[/quote]

i have read the anabolic diet and it simply isn’t good. it could be worse, i suppose, but it does have a lot of shortcomings. the first ones that come to mind are:

  1. the calorie recommendations are way to high.

  2. the notion that testosterone will increase in a dose-dependent manor to fat intake is simply wrong.

  3. fat is set WAY to high (no reason fat should be 60% of intake while on a diet, unless you like losing muscle.)

  4. during a carb-up, the fat should be minimal, while protein should be moderate, not the other way around.

  5. the 30g carb limit is completly arbitrary.

I understand that he says you should adjust the diet to you needs, but no diet should need THAT much adjusting from the get-go.

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
i have read the anabolic diet and it simply isn’t good. it could be worse, i suppose, but it does have a lot of shortcomings. the first ones that come to mind are:

  1. the calorie recommendations are way to high. [/quote]

For you.

This is a misinterpretation. Mauro’s point was that increasing fat and lowering carbs could increase total testosterone. Many studies verify this. But, indeed, it is way overstated.

Depends on many factors: individual’s metabolism, calorie levels, weekly exercise volume, degree of leanness, length in between last carb/calorie spike, etc.

I have never lost muscle on a very low carb diet and I’m pretty damn lean.

Again, depends on many factors: calorie levels during the week, weekly exercise volume, degree of leanness, goals, length of carb-up, length in between last carb/calorie spike, etc.

The 30g limit is for the induction phase. It’s to help you get “fat adapted” as quickly as possible. It does not necessarily apply thereafter.

Let me make this clear: the diet fits the individual, not the other way around.

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
I’m a fan of Berardi’s 7 habit of highly effective nutritional programs.

what are your goals?[/quote]

Right now I’ve just finished the V-Diet. I wussed out after the first week and switched to the V-Diet Lite. I still lost 7 pounds and did see muscle growth while losing a pant size. I can see results and that’s what I wanted. My new goal is to continue fat loss. I’m not concerned with hypertrophy right now. It was gus’s Physique Clinic that inspired me to do the V-Diet as we’re similar in height and weight although he had more muscle. I would call myself an intermediate lifter. I’ve lifted weights in the past with no real goal and always convinced myself that the extra fat was part of the growth. I’m now tired of seeing my moobs in the mirror. I’ll say again, I’m inspired by my results from my half V-Diet half V-Diet Lite, and I’m looking to build upon them.

[quote]Higgins wrote:
I agree with JMo. In the end you should be able to set up your own nutritional plan with what works best for YOU. The process of learning these things takes a little while to get onto and basicly just try things.

These of course are depending on your goals, but with the proper knowledge you should be able to make up a diet plan with any sort of goals in mind.

If you give us some stats/goals we can give you a guideline for a couple of things you might want to try but in the end it all comes down to what works best for you.[/quote]

I’m 5’8" with 206 pounds of weight. I don’t have any fat measurements to give you. My waist is 40 inches down from 43 (I wussed out after 1st week of V Diet).

[quote]ovalpline wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
i have read the anabolic diet and it simply isn’t good. it could be worse, i suppose, but it does have a lot of shortcomings. the first ones that come to mind are:

  1. the calorie recommendations are way to high.

For you.

  1. the notion that testosterone will increase in a dose-dependent manor to fat intake is simply wrong.

This is a misinterpretation. Mauro’s point was that increasing fat and lowering carbs could increase total testosterone. Many studies verify this. But, indeed, it is way overstated.

  1. fat is set WAY to high (no reason fat should be 60% of intake while on a diet, unless you like losing muscle.)

Depends on many factors: individual’s metabolism, calorie levels, weekly exercise volume, degree of leanness, length in between last carb/calorie spike, etc.

I have never lost muscle on a very low carb diet and I’m pretty damn lean.

  1. during a carb-up, the fat should be minimal, while protein should be moderate, not the other way around.

Again, depends on many factors: calorie levels during the week, weekly exercise volume, degree of leanness, goals, length of carb-up, length in between last carb/calorie spike, etc.

  1. the 30g carb limit is completly arbitrary.

The 30g limit is for the induction phase. It’s to help you get “fat adapted” as quickly as possible. It does not necessarily apply thereafter.

I understand that he says you should adjust the diet to you needs, but no diet should need THAT much adjusting from the get-go.

Let me make this clear: the diet fits the individual, not the other way around.[/quote]

I’d be interested in reading up on it. Is there a link or a site?

I’m mid bulk with the Anabolic Diet and its working great. But I will have to agree the Calorie recommendations are a little high, and the 48 hour carb ups are a little ridculous. As an example, I am consuming a little under Dr. Maruo’s recommended caloric intake and still gaining weight. The carb ups I keep them clean, I have them 48 hours long, but I would definetly rethink my approach for a cut.

I would do 1-3 Carb up meals every 6 days (clean sources), if I were to cut. CT posted in a thread about this and makes some very good points. I follow the macros as recommended by try to get my fat sources from red meat, nuts, healthy oils. Slathering mayonnaise on your ground beef is not the best (although I did do this at one point). Personally, I think with minor tweaks its a fairly effective diet.

cyclical ketogenic diets (which the anabolic diet is a varient of) can be effective. but the anabolic diet get just about everything wrong. Mauro should’ve stuck to steroids.

With diet just try to eat clean, which I assume you already do. Look at all the Behardi and Bowden interviews that have been on this site. There is a nice nutritional link.

My personal habit is

Breakfast ~ 100g oats w/protein or 5-eggs omelette with something

PoWo - 100g oats w/protein or lentils/oats

Meal 3 - Fish with veggies and rice

Meal 4 - Lentils and rice/oats

Meal 5 - Burger (no bread) with a lot of veggies and nut oil (for fat cals)

Meal 6 - Protein with some almonds, fish oil and some pb and some nut oil.

That doesn’t sound a lot but it does hit 3k kcals, ( I use fitday)

My opinion is that you should be looking to taper off your carbs at the end of the day and increase fat, which doesn’t make you fat. Along time ago on this site I read that the final meal of the day should be about 30-40g pro, less that 15g carbs and 300-400kcals for lean growth.

So in summary it does not matter what diet you are on only the quantity, quality and the macros.

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
cyclical ketogenic diets (which the anabolic diet is a varient of) can be effective. but the anabolic diet get just about everything wrong. Mauro should’ve stuck to steroids.[/quote]

LOL

Please enlighten everyone, JMo!

[quote]jlunstrum wrote:
ovalpline wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:
i have read the anabolic diet and it simply isn’t good. it could be worse, i suppose, but it does have a lot of shortcomings. the first ones that come to mind are:

  1. the calorie recommendations are way to high.

For you.

  1. the notion that testosterone will increase in a dose-dependent manor to fat intake is simply wrong.

This is a misinterpretation. Mauro’s point was that increasing fat and lowering carbs could increase total testosterone. Many studies verify this. But, indeed, it is way overstated.

  1. fat is set WAY to high (no reason fat should be 60% of intake while on a diet, unless you like losing muscle.)

Depends on many factors: individual’s metabolism, calorie levels, weekly exercise volume, degree of leanness, length in between last carb/calorie spike, etc.

I have never lost muscle on a very low carb diet and I’m pretty damn lean.

  1. during a carb-up, the fat should be minimal, while protein should be moderate, not the other way around.

Again, depends on many factors: calorie levels during the week, weekly exercise volume, degree of leanness, goals, length of carb-up, length in between last carb/calorie spike, etc.

  1. the 30g carb limit is completly arbitrary.

The 30g limit is for the induction phase. It’s to help you get “fat adapted” as quickly as possible. It does not necessarily apply thereafter.

I understand that he says you should adjust the diet to you needs, but no diet should need THAT much adjusting from the get-go.

Let me make this clear: the diet fits the individual, not the other way around.

I’d be interested in reading up on it. Is there a link or a site?[/quote]

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:

  1. the calorie recommendations are way to high.[/quote]

Most people shouldn’t be worried about calories. I think most authors feel inclined to give recommendations anyway. This is sort of irrelevant.

This kind of diet is protein-sparing. I don’t know what leads you to believe otherwise. And you could easily be getting 1.25x bodyweight in protein, especially since the calories are “way to [sic] high.”

It is, essentially, a cheat day. There’s plenty of room to tweak this if it’s not working. But I believe the idea is that the carbs go to refilling glycogen and fat is still preferentially used as fuel. And Mauro says stop carbing up when you feel like you’re getting fat.

Maybe you can get away with more. He obviously found it to be an effective upper limit. It certainly makes people pay attention to all the “hidden” carbs they’re ingesting.

I’m not really an AD person, I prefer straight up carb cycling, but I don’t think you really understand the diet.

[quote]wfifer wrote:
JMoUCF87 wrote:

  1. the calorie recommendations are way to high.

Most people shouldn’t be worried about calories. I think most authors feel inclined to give recommendations anyway. This is sort of irrelevant.
[/quote]

once you begin to believe that calories are “irrelevant” you have already lost. please go find another hobby. a calorie surplus/deficit will always be the primary determinant whether someone gains or loses weight. always.

a high fat diet may be protein sparing, but not as much as a high protein diet. the fact is that at a given caloric level (say BWx12) a 200 lb man will be eating ~180g of protein on a diet that is 60% fat, 30% protein and 10% carbs (as many recommend when following the diet) this is much too low for leanish, weight training men.

dont confuse carb refeed with “cheat day” as they are not the same. the anabolic diet calls for a 36-48 hour refeed. unfortunatly keeping fat that high on a refeed (i.e. hypercaloric) day will only result in you burning less bodyfat as fuel (why would you when you’re eating so much fat right?)

while i understand that the 30g limit is a “starter value” too many take it as an “upper limit” and so people get worried that the’re eating 40 or 50g of carbs per day, but think nothing in injesting 200+g of fat per day. (I’ve been there myself)

Cyclical Ketogenic Diets (the anabolic/metabolic diet, bodyopus, the ultimate diet, rob faigen’s NHE diet etc.) all work to some degree, it’s just that some are set up more intelligently than others. unfortunately, the Anabolic diet needs a lot of “tinkering” before it becomes decent.

I will lay out my recent diet that I have lost 20 lbs in 7 weeks.

Meals
(1 or 2 high carb days per week) This is an example of a typical day and I change it up often. There is a list of good foods to eat on this site, http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=32222
5-6 per day
meal 1 - egg whites and 1 toast
meal 2 - 1/2 ch breast and veggies
meal 3 - 1/2 ch breast and sweet potato
meal 4 - fruit and protein shake
meal 5 - 1/2 ch breast and cottage cheese
meal 6 - 1 fish fillet and veggies

Exercise
Daily cardio 2-3 miles fast walk or jog, try to do this in the morning for better fat burn.

Workout
4 days per week, 2 upper, 2 lower, 2 ab workouts

It works for me. I have also dropped 7% body fat in 7 weeks and I plan on doing this for 16 weeks until I hit my goal. This is a guideline and you should put something together that fits your lifestyle.