T Nation

In NY: I'm a Conservative

That’s right. All of my friends, my family, and my teachers think I’m a conservative.

Many of you know me as the punk left-wing kid… but apparently you’ve converted me. I argue for the free market, I decry carbon taxes and the Kyoto treaty, and I am now opposed to moving towards socialist policy.

I’m still a social liberal, and I still believe the Iraq War was unjust and we were wrong to invade, and I still hate Fox News. And, unlike many of you, I don’t believe ‘liberals’ are control freaks who want to control us all. I see where they’re coming from, especially because my ENTIRE family and group of friends (with VERY little exception) are all very, very liberal, to the point of socialist thought.

I can’t help but think so many of the things I used to think about Republicans are ridiculous and shallow. However, I still don’t consider myself a Republican… however I’m no where near being a Democrat anymore.

Now, when me and my parents talk politics, I can’t help but FACEPALM about their misconceived notions about government, the economy, and especially their view of the GOP as compared to the Democrats.

Thanks T-Nation. You’ve destroyed by political identity -_-;

You should rise above pity labels. It’s kind of hard to do in a black and white political landscape such as you have in the US.

Our little Beowolf is growing up right before our eyes. Only a matter of time until HH gets you your very own vibrator.

You drank the Kool-Aid, Beo.

Sorry to lose you to the dark side.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
That’s right. All of my friends, my family, and my teachers think I’m a conservative.

Many of you know me as the punk left-wing kid… but apparently you’ve converted me. I argue for the free market, I decry carbon taxes and the Kyoto treaty, and I am now opposed to moving towards socialist policy.

I’m still a social liberal, and I still believe the Iraq War was unjust and we were wrong to invade, and I still hate Fox News. And, unlike many of you, I don’t believe ‘liberals’ are control freaks who want to control us all. I see where they’re coming from, especially because my ENTIRE family and group of friends (with VERY little exception) are all very, very liberal, to the point of socialist thought.

I can’t help but think so many of the things I used to think about Republicans are ridiculous and shallow. However, I still don’t consider myself a Republican… however I’m no where near being a Democrat anymore.

Now, when me and my parents talk politics, I can’t help but FACEPALM about their misconceived notions about government, the economy, and especially their view of the GOP as compared to the Democrats.

Thanks T-Nation. You’ve destroyed by political identity -_-;[/quote]

You’re getting there.

Another couple of years with us and we’ll have you fixed up right good.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
That’s right. All of my friends, my family, and my teachers think I’m a conservative.

Many of you know me as the punk left-wing kid… but apparently you’ve converted me. I argue for the free market, I decry carbon taxes and the Kyoto treaty, and I am now opposed to moving towards socialist policy.

I’m still a social liberal, and I still believe the Iraq War was unjust and we were wrong to invade, and I still hate Fox News. And, unlike many of you, I don’t believe ‘liberals’ are control freaks who want to control us all. I see where they’re coming from, especially because my ENTIRE family and group of friends (with VERY little exception) are all very, very liberal, to the point of socialist thought.

I can’t help but think so many of the things I used to think about Republicans are ridiculous and shallow. However, I still don’t consider myself a Republican… however I’m no where near being a Democrat anymore.

Now, when me and my parents talk politics, I can’t help but FACEPALM about their misconceived notions about government, the economy, and especially their view of the GOP as compared to the Democrats.

Thanks T-Nation. You’ve destroyed by political identity -_-;[/quote]

Welcome to the dark side. As you get older and have more to lose, and be responsible for, you tend to see the senselessness of Liberal policies.

A lot of conservatives, myself included, have a fairly liberal outlook on social policies. Not welfare or health care or things that cost money, but real social issues such as gay marriage and things of that sort. A lot of conservatives take a live and let live approach rather then activist approach.

[quote]hedo wrote:
Welcome to the dark side. As you get older and have more to lose, and be responsible for, you tend to see the senselessness of Liberal policies. [/quote]

Of course you do!

You’re all very liberal when it comes to bombing or attacking the sovereignty of other countries.

“Everyone is so reactionary. The minute all my friends got rich, they became conservatives”.

Groucho Marx in an interview with Dick Cavett

[quote]hedo wrote:

Welcome to the dark side. As you get older and have more to lose, and be responsible for, you tend to see the senselessness of Liberal policies.

A lot of conservatives, myself included, have a fairly liberal outlook on social policies. Not welfare or health care or things that cost money, but real social issues such as gay marriage and things of that sort. A lot of conservatives take a live and let live approach rather then activist approach.[/quote]

I agree with Hedo. Most conservatives I know are much more socially liberal than the caricature. And even the ones who are less so are much more tolerant, or at a minimum may disapprove of certain social behavior, but have no interest in outlawing it.

Quite a few social conservatives are probably better defined as cultural conservatives. I think it is in the excesses of “social liberalism” that there comes the objections, and that makes sense - conservatives don’t much like extremes.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:

I can’t help but think so many of the things I used to think about Republicans are ridiculous and shallow. [/quote]

Beowolf, I just wanted to highlight this piece. This is pretty common.

I have often heard it said that “Republicans think Democrats are wrong, Democrats think Republicans are evil” - and this plays itself out time and again. The disappearance of good faith - something I harp on a lot these days - is hurting our political discourse.

Most of my friends are left-wing types. I think they are wrong on all kinds of issues, but I do believe and always assume they are trying to act in the best interest of the public - their intentions are in the right place.

Since the 1960s, and really before that, just heightened here in America, conservative thought - political thought that was realistic in always considering man and his unchangeable, flawed human nature - was considered nothing more than a stalking horse for intentional philosophies trying to “oppress” people by quite a few people opposed to it. This proto-Marxist critique - no matter how dressed up - infected the argument, whether social or economic, and still infects it to this day. It assumes bad faith by anyone who advocates something other than statism or revolution or a utopian vision of “progress”.

We need to repair the amount of good faith in political discussion - that’d be a good start to fixing the bad kind of polarization we see in politics nowadays.

[quote]dk44 wrote:
Our little Beowolf is growing up right before our eyes. Only a matter of time until HH gets you your very own vibrator. [/quote]

He lives in New York. I’d give him body armor.

Beowolf, isn’t it interesting that liberals tend to be in cities? When people are packed together in crowds, they tend to have crowd delusions, like that government is the end all and be all. Cities make people more ready to unite as one neck ready for one leash.

[quote]lixy wrote:
hedo wrote:
Welcome to the dark side. As you get older and have more to lose, and be responsible for, you tend to see the senselessness of Liberal policies.

Of course you do!

You’re all very liberal when it comes to bombing or attacking the sovereignty of other countries.[/quote]

Blah Blah Blah. Never an original thought.

Keep up the good work. The little cyber Jihad you are on gives us all a good laugh.

[quote]lixy wrote:
hedo wrote:
Welcome to the dark side. As you get older and have more to lose, and be responsible for, you tend to see the senselessness of Liberal policies.

Of course you do!

You’re all very liberal when it comes to bombing or attacking the sovereignty of other countries.[/quote]

You don’t understand the nature of morality.

You are always free to stop illegal violence. If you see a mugger attacking someone (esp a helpless person), you have the right to stop that.

Saddam attacked his own people and his neighbors. He threatened to carry out more attacks. Therefore, the United States had the right (but not the obligation) to attack him.

By your logic, we could not have attacked Imperial Japan or Nazi Germany, as they were sovereign nations.

Oh…but do you really mean that ISLAMIC sovereign nations can’t be attacked? I suspect this latter.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
That’s right. All of my friends, my family, and my teachers think I’m a conservative.

Many of you know me as the punk left-wing kid… but apparently you’ve converted me. I argue for the free market, I decry carbon taxes and the Kyoto treaty, and I am now opposed to moving towards socialist policy.

I’m still a social liberal, and I still believe the Iraq War was unjust and we were wrong to invade, and I still hate Fox News. And, unlike many of you, I don’t believe ‘liberals’ are control freaks who want to control us all. I see where they’re coming from, especially because my ENTIRE family and group of friends (with VERY little exception) are all very, very liberal, to the point of socialist thought.

I can’t help but think so many of the things I used to think about Republicans are ridiculous and shallow. However, I still don’t consider myself a Republican… however I’m no where near being a Democrat anymore.

Now, when me and my parents talk politics, I can’t help but FACEPALM about their misconceived notions about government, the economy, and especially their view of the GOP as compared to the Democrats.

Thanks T-Nation. You’ve destroyed by political identity -_-;[/quote]

Dude, you’re a libertarian. Deal with it!

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
hedo wrote:

I agree with Hedo. Most conservatives I know are much more socially liberal than the caricature. And even the ones who are less so are much more tolerant, or at a minimum may disapprove of certain social behavior, but have no interest in outlawing it.

Quite a few social conservatives are probably better defined as cultural conservatives. I think it is in the excesses of “social liberalism” that there comes the objections, and that makes sense - conservatives don’t much like extremes.[/quote]

Yup. It all goes back to a basic idea of what the gub’ment should and should not do. Generally, it should stay out of our lives. It should fix the roads, deliver the mail and only when there is great justification, interfere. That has as a corollary that porn, prostitution, drugs, gay marriage and a host of other hot-button topics are supported, at least in theory. Paradoxically, a lot of my faculty friends think I’m conservative (nope, good old-fashioned liberal, a la Thomas Jefferson) but on nearly every social issue they come up with, I’m more “liberal” than they are.

Ok, can anyone then tell me why I keep getting labelled as conservative when any objective standard puts me light years away from it? Ah, yes, if you disagree with Leftists and any of their platforms, you are conservative. I think the PETA people are just a bunch of goody two-shoes storm troopers and I flatly refuse to abrogate the Constitution in the name of Global Warming. (Not saying GW doesn’t exist, just that it is misused as a political platform far too much.) I also refuse to subscribe to identity politics, which sounds creepily like smiley-faced bigotry.

I guess what I’m coming up with here, is that a lot of current “liberalism” is just public moralizing. I don’t think that should drive public policy, from any ideological angle. I don’t like it when it comes from the religious Right anymore than the Left.

Funny recent interlude, was about the unfortunate forced child-marriages by the fundi Mormon sect in Texas. My liberal friends were having apoplexy about the polygamy (read patriarchal oppression). I stated that underage marriage and sex were the issue, since there is no question of reasonable consent, just coercion, but because I did support domestic contracts (incl. gay marriage) there was no reason not to allow for multiple domestic contracts. They are private contracts between citizens, in my humble opinion. So yeah, polygamy is fine, sex with kids is not. It was clear to me that what got their knickers in a knot is that the people involved were Mormons. Hardly tolerant.

And I could just be full of shit…

– jj

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
hedo wrote:

Welcome to the dark side. As you get older and have more to lose, and be responsible for, you tend to see the senselessness of Liberal policies.

A lot of conservatives, myself included, have a fairly liberal outlook on social policies. Not welfare or health care or things that cost money, but real social issues such as gay marriage and things of that sort. A lot of conservatives take a live and let live approach rather then activist approach.

I agree with Hedo. Most conservatives I know are much more socially liberal than the caricature. And even the ones who are less so are much more tolerant, or at a minimum may disapprove of certain social behavior, but have no interest in outlawing it.

Quite a few social conservatives are probably better defined as cultural conservatives. I think it is in the excesses of “social liberalism” that there comes the objections, and that makes sense - conservatives don’t much like extremes.[/quote]

Why this insane drug laws then?

And the criminalization of prostitution, anal and oral sex, etc…

All these politicians must pander to someone who thinks that those are great ideas.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
That’s right. All of my friends, my family, and my teachers think I’m a conservative.

Many of you know me as the punk left-wing kid… but apparently you’ve converted me. I argue for the free market, I decry carbon taxes and the Kyoto treaty, and I am now opposed to moving towards socialist policy.

I’m still a social liberal, and I still believe the Iraq War was unjust and we were wrong to invade, and I still hate Fox News. And, unlike many of you, I don’t believe ‘liberals’ are control freaks who want to control us all. I see where they’re coming from, especially because my ENTIRE family and group of friends (with VERY little exception) are all very, very liberal, to the point of socialist thought.

I can’t help but think so many of the things I used to think about Republicans are ridiculous and shallow. However, I still don’t consider myself a Republican… however I’m no where near being a Democrat anymore.

Now, when me and my parents talk politics, I can’t help but FACEPALM about their misconceived notions about government, the economy, and especially their view of the GOP as compared to the Democrats.

Thanks T-Nation. You’ve destroyed by political identity -_-;[/quote]

Actually, it just shows you have a brain. That thoughts can evolve. You rise above the muckity-muck who don’t even think about what they believe they just walk around like zombies.
For example, We have friends of ours, she’s from Boston. In her family tradition, you’re from Boston so you would die for the sanctity of the Red Sox and you vote democrat. That’s it. Forget the fact that he democratic party is diametrically opposed to much of the things she actually believes in, as she states in casual conversation. It doesn’t matter she votes democrat because that’s what her family does. Yes, it is idiotic, but that is the end all and be all. No thinking, just nodding like a bobble-head and fulfilling the duty to her family crest.

I am neither republican or democrat or libertarian for that matter (to restrictive). I am just Pat(pbum), I have liberal views I have conservative views and I views that are neither.

My advice, don’t subscribe to a party or ideology they will only hold you down.

My Favorite president: Thomas Jefferson. Look him up, he is a liberty guy to the extreme…You’ll like him. I’d make him king.

Hey, maybe we should start the Jeffersonian Party. We’ll have middle finger as our symbol instead of a donkey or elephant; I think Jefferson would have liked that.

[quote]dk44 wrote:
Our little Beowolf is growing up right before our eyes. Only a matter of time until HH gets you your very own vibrator. [/quote]

It brings a tear to my eyes.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
That’s right. All of my friends, my family, and my teachers think I’m a conservative.

Many of you know me as the punk left-wing kid… but apparently you’ve converted me. I argue for the free market, I decry carbon taxes and the Kyoto treaty, and I am now opposed to moving towards socialist policy.

I’m still a social liberal, and I still believe the Iraq War was unjust and we were wrong to invade, and I still hate Fox News. And, unlike many of you, I don’t believe ‘liberals’ are control freaks who want to control us all. I see where they’re coming from, especially because my ENTIRE family and group of friends (with VERY little exception) are all very, very liberal, to the point of socialist thought.

I can’t help but think so many of the things I used to think about Republicans are ridiculous and shallow. However, I still don’t consider myself a Republican… however I’m no where near being a Democrat anymore.

Now, when me and my parents talk politics, I can’t help but FACEPALM about their misconceived notions about government, the economy, and especially their view of the GOP as compared to the Democrats.

Thanks T-Nation. You’ve destroyed by political identity -_-;

Dude, you’re a libertarian. Deal with it![/quote]

What does stacking books and the Dewey Decimal system have to do with politics?

[quote]Scrotus wrote:
What does stacking books and the Dewey Decimal system have to do with politics?[/quote]

Exactly! Its not politics its a lifestyle.