It both puzzles and fustrates me to see all these kids talking how great there RSX or Honda Civic Si when there pushing 170-200hp and talking about spending an extra $10,000 on nos and turbos. First these little 4cyl are already hi-strung and arent going to last long with hi boost turbos and nos. to make there 300-320hp. and who said a RSX type S would give any Corvette a run for there money must not know anything about cars, stock for stock your looking at a 12.4 compared to 15.2 a turbo might knock off a sec. off the RSX but after a couple of hard runs you’ll need a new clutch, shafts and so on to tack on to that $10,000 turbos an nos. do yourself a favor go get your self a Z28, trans am they come with 310hp run low 13s, and you can get a 98-99 with 305hp for like 11,000 spend and couple of thousand on a supercharger and you got like 430hp+. and running 11.5-12.00s for less then $25,000. Oh yeah i have a 70 Chevelle SS w/450hp+ that runs great no problems girls love it and none of you riceboys with all your turbos nos etc. still dont want to run, why do these guys with such great cars only race other imports.
Okay, I admit maybe I exageratted a little.(It sounded good at the time and raised a few heads) Corvettes are faster by nature, but you are comparing a V-8 to a four banger, common guys. Really though I think I would be closer than what you guys think. Some of these “ricers” with a turbo and a couple of mods(without nos) are pretty damned fast. The thing I really like about them is their size. They have such a way of making it through traffic. You said engines wouldn’t last?? Thats what is known about the imports, is life of their engines. Not to mention resale value! For day to day use the ricer is da shit. For raw power and straight track use, duh! BTW I happen to really like Corvettes. The Lingenfelters I heard something like 60% of owners request none of the Lingenfelter logos. Interesting stuff huh?
Muscle cars are great if your going in a straight line. I’d really like to see a chevelle take a mountain road like a WRX or Mistubishi Lancer. Sure I think the power and speed potential of honda’s are overated, but the fact is not all rice burners are hondas. Hondas as a whole have too little displacement but a 2.2 or 2.5 litre 4 cylinder can make a great amount of streetable power. Talk about cars that will fall apart with extra power??? Chevy’s fucking break constantly!!! I don’t know one chevy owner who has the orginal engine over 100,000 miles. Look in the classified section of the local paper and you’ll find more damn camaro’s and firebirds than you can shake a stick at. They’re made out of crap. I do think a corvette is an exception but not with the stock suspension. Most muscle cars flex like hell when they go around corners. Not to mention the fact that you have to waste a crapload of gas to run a huge V-8. If you consider handling, speed, gas mileage, price of purchase, and reliability, a big muscle car wins only two of those categories. Its too bad all the roads in the country aren’t straight, that way people would still buy muscle cars to go fast.
I think some of you need to really check your time slips at the track.
Nate, taking an MR2 to 12 flat requires a shit load of Mods, it stocks at what, 14ish? I know it is a nice car when running, but it need a ton more torque to get to 12. Stock Vipers do high 12s.
You can buy a Lingenfelter kit for your car for as little as 12k, go the the webiste and check, and the 50k kits only take a Viper down to 11 flat in street tires, and Vipers come with wicked streets. It takes a whole lot to make any car sub 12, and most Rice Rockets won’t ever do it.
The only car that can get to 11 with about 2k worth of work is the 1986-1987 Buick Grand National. It was the fastest USA production car of 1987 and does 13.5 without even a chip, 12.8 with a chip.
And a fucking 10 old Vette will eat an RSX, SS Birds kill the NSX in the 1/4 for christ sakes.
You mean the GNX not the original Grand National.
my favorite would be '76 coupe deville w/ optional warlord package. by the way – i am also white and proud of it… hmmmmm…
My fahter has 2 chevys w/ the orignal engines not rebuilt that have over 200,000 miles, i think chevys last hence “like a rock”, also i could put my chevelle has heavy duty susp. even though its 30yrs old it will still pull .86g with the new updated tires. buy the way will your car ever bring a 400% increase in value like my car has I think not. and with upgrades my chevelle could pull a 1.00g the red line chevelle that was modifed will beat any car you can throw at it on the track, with exception of a couple high dollar extoics.
Your telling me that your chevelle will pull 1.00g’s with street legal tires, a solid rear axle, and leaf springs!!! HAHAHAHAHA BOY ALL THE SCCA GUYS MUST ALL DRIVE CHEVELLES!!! Dream on. .86g’s is great but I don’t buy that 1g crap for a minute. If a (street legal)chevelle could pull 1g’s with what you mention then I guess every one in the nasa and scca racing leagues would be autocrossing them expecially since they’re cheaper to repair right??? Nope! The new MR2 with a FACTORY performance suspension and street legal tires pulls 1.03g’s. That doesn’t even have a race suspension. Give me a break. Sorry but even if your 1g claim is true there are plenty of small japanese cars on the road that can pull that and more with a minimum investment. When is the last time you checked out how most cars handle? Do you really think that only exotics can pull above 1g? I know of a well auto-crossed(scca solo2) street legal RX-7 that does 1.035g’s with koni coil-overs, street legal tires, and a new front sway bar. Thats all! RX-7s aren’t exotic cars by any stretch of the imagination. You were much better off arguing that a chevelle makes an inexpensive and fast 1/4 mile car.
Laz,
the GNX, while wicked cool and rare, is just a tad faster than the GN from those 3 model years. The GN was virtually identical in performance with just a touch of after market, a chip alone for about $45 is enough.
It is a performance marvel.
The MR2 is a neat little rice rocket, but the 300zx is a better car in my opinion. The Acuras and Hondas really do not perform well, not compared to the other cars available in the same price range.
I think the 300zx is a great car, especial since it has so much power potential. I’m not the biggest fan of acura/honda either since they already squeeze so much out of their engines to get the power that comes with the car. The best thing going for honda/acura is that many of those cars have an independent double wishbone suspension. Its quite rare to have that in such tiny cars. I like nissan’s approach because they will often use a truck engine in a car. Sure it sucks to have a car with a heavy truck engine in stock form, but they will take a TON of boost, and you can beat the crap out of them, but they just keep going. I also agree with your(colin) previous post, making an MR2 go under 12 seconds is really pushing the limits of what that car is capable of. If its going to go that fast its really not going to be a very reliable street car.
The NHRA import car show was in town last month, and I saw many street legal MR2’s running 12’s. I also saw some nice Supras running 10-11 seconds as well as a 300z and a Rx7 running 12’s. All cars were street legal. So it’s possible, but it does take some work and money. I recently found a place that imports the Skyline, but I can’t afford to purchase one. And I also found a place in Florida that imports the Mitsu EVO VII for $36,500 out the door. And that is not bad considering the car is brand new and puts out 300hp to the wheels with an advanced all-wheel drive system. The EVO that will be available to us in Jan 2003 will only be 250-260 hp at the flywheel, and it will sell for about $30K. So if I could afford to, I’d buy the imported one in a heartbeat.
I’ve been looking at my options, and I’ve found another car that I have been quite interested in. I found a sweet 1990 Toyota Celica All Trac with only 62,500 miles. The price is great, and the car has been well taken care of. So I’m working on getting it. The cool thing about the all trac is the fact that it has the same turbo engine found in the MR2, and it’s all-wheel drive. So it’s a pretty cool car. And it can easily be upgraded for more power. So if all goes well, I’ll be purchasing it soon. Then I’ll decide in a year or two to try and get the EVO, WRX STi, or maybe a Skyline. We’ll see. Or I could just keep the All Trac and buy a sport bike. Since most of my friends own sport bikes, it would be cool to be able to hang with them and take some sweet rides on some curvy country roads!
It is possible to run low 12’s in an MR2, BUT you only saw those cars for one day, you don’t know if they are reliable or if they stall all the time etc. Its not impossible just BE CAREFUL when doing that kind of work to any car. One false step tuning your engine’s ecu and its GONE! A slightly lean condition while increasing boost could cause you to kiss your car goodbye; blow a piston ring and there is a good chance it’ll fly into the turbine and ruin the turbo! Make friends with some of those MR2 guys to see how they’re doing it. If you want some really good info on different toyota engines check out the toysport website. The all-trac is a hardy car(you might want to check out the supra’s lsd’s because I know they fit in several other toyota’s). Does it come with limited slips??? I can’t remember but some of the 80’s all-tracs actualy had full time 4wd even though they said awd. You might want to do a compression check while your looking at the car also. The pressure guage is dirt cheap and it gives you a good view as to how the engine is holding up. There are a ton of older celica mailing lists on the web, with more info than you can imagine. And of course you can(like the mr2) look forward to having a crapload of interchangeable parts with other toyotas. Sport bikes are great since they’re generaly less complex and go like hell. I’m thinking of getting a motorcycle so I don’t have to drive my pickup everywhere. Motorcycles completely scare the shit out of me and excite me at the same time. Boy if you bought an EVO or Sti from europe I’d be envious as hell.
your opnion no longer counts Chevelles dont even run leaf springs! stock they run four link with both front and rear sway bars and heavy duty springs. The Chevelle i mentioned owned by redline is street legal runs 335/35ZR17 and 275/40ZR17 owner says he has a Z06 and the chevelle out handles it. the chevelle also ran 200mph with 2.56’s, and no stock MR2 pulls a 1.03, the point i was making was all the 4cyl. guys say “my car can do this with this mod and so on an on an on” Well what about us V8 guys that already make tons of power, what happens win we put mods. on are cars. I’ll tell you get your butts kicked. so while you spend you $10,000 on turbos to catch a stock SS camaro, or corvette or Mustang. they spend $3500 to put themselves out of reach for you guys, and dont have to run over 10-15psi and some times more and watch the engine parts fly.
The best of both worlds:
http://miata.cardomain.com/id/jb3452
On another note, I’ve owned two AWD Diamond Stars. A 90 Eclipse and a '97 Talon. For $1500 you can get the car into high 12s in street trim, NO SLICKS. For street racing this will toast any 500hp Mustang. You gotta hook up to win. They’re the best bang for the buck import dragracer available. The trannies do get crunchy after a while, but you gotta pay to play.
IClight
Ok fair enough, I saw several chevelles running at drag races, and for some reason had leaf springs, but I do admit it when I’m wrong, the chevelle DOES come with a rear coil suspension. But since were bringing up mistakes how about your claim that only high priced exotics pull 1g??? I never said an MR2 pulls 1.03g’s STOCK. I said WITH A FACTORY PERFORMANCE SUPSENSION. THAT MEANS YOU CAN ORDER IT FROM TOYOTA. TRD is a toyota owned performance company that can have TRD parts INSTALLED WHEN YOU PURCHASE THE CAR RIGHT AT THE DEALER. And I never argued that muscle cars/chevelles weren’t fast I’m saying that they can’t handle for shit. Those things flex like a peice of pipe cleaner. Oh and to set the record straight about how easy you claim building a 1g machine is like the Red Line Chevelle, maybe we should look at how they did it??? Here are some interesting bits from a well known hot-rod site. "They took an extremely valuable '70 Chevelle with only 11,000 miles on the ticker and bolted up every killer g-Machine item imaginable (PHR Jun., Jul., and Aug. '99). They’re not dumb, as the pristine OE parts are sitting in the garage, so they could be easily swapped back for to protect the car’s value. As for the storied 454 under the hood, it’s next to go. " So we see here that they have basically taken the chevelle and stripped it to the bone so they can re-build it with aftermarket parts. Is it really a chevelle anymore??? NOPE! What was that about import tuners spending 10k??? “Tim Kerrigan and the Red Line guys wanted an aftermarket engine to go with their Hotchkis suspension, Baer brakes, Chassisworks 9-inch housing, etc. As it sits now, the Chevelle isn’t too extreme, but plenty serious.” Here it is again, this thing isn’t even made with any chevelle parts anymore. Why doesn’t everyone go to engineshop*com and read all about the chevelle that doesn’t have any actual chevelle parts left. Plus you can read about how a crapload of aftermarket companies contributed free parts. The web site even says that the engine put in that chevelle costs $10k. Thats just the engine. Boy you were saying my opinion doesn’t count??? Well the people making your beloved red line chevelle seem to argue my point for me quite well. That chevelle is 80-90% aftermarket parts and they obviously spent well over $10k. I could easily make an old toyota with a 22re engine pull mid 11’s and corner above 1g for less than what they spent on that chevelle.
Guys, I have had a ton of cars. Currently own slighlty modify stealth r/t twin turbo and 99 vette. Vette will light the stealth up despite the fact that the stealth has all wheel drive. Horsepower is great but torque is what you feel, and from 0-30 cubic inches matter more than hp per liter. I also have had a mustang with supercharger and a heavily modified probe the vette is the quickest car I’ve had. Although a viper will eat it for breakfast.
You have to admit, that today’s imports are just as quick as the old Detroit muscle cars. And with most import cars, you get a daily driver that is quite reliable. Look at the EVO, Skyline or WRX STi. They are some of Japan’s leading performance cars and have been for many years. The U.S. won’t allow these high-powered cars due to high emissions laws. But luckily, some detuned versions of those cars are coming. And with 250-270 hp, they are still quite impressive, and their handling is the best you can get. The Skyline has been proven to have some of the most sophisticated all-wheel drive handling of any car. And you can get the EVO and the Skyline imported in the U.S. at the Japan specs, but you have to pay some pretty big bucks to do it. Actually, right now, you can get the EVO VII for $36,500 out the door with all the Japan specs, and left-hand drive. That car will blow anything else away, including vettes and the Viper! And for the price, it’s hella worth it. I can’t afford to import an EVO right now (Boy, I wish I had an extra $10K). But I’ll probably get one or something similar (Skyline, WRX STi) in the future. Go imports! Oh yeah, I thought about buying a TT Supra, but all the ones I’ve seen for sale are way too expensive. That just proves that imports hold their value and can perform.
“You have to admit, that today’s imports are just as quick as the old Detroit muscle cars.”
Very true. Of course today’s technology will outperform yesterday’s. It’s the “romance” and “attitude” aspects of muscle cars that attracts most enthusiasts, myself included. There’s something VERY empowering about driving by a woman and seeing a broad smile spread across her face. It’s even better when she’s a full-on MILF.
“A guy I dated in High School drove that EXACT car. But this one is a lot nicer!”
“Hmmmm...you don’t say...” :)
Ok everyone lets use some logic to figure out if the EVo 7 could actaully beat a muscle car like a z06;
These are actual spec numbers on both cars.
EVO has a 0-60 of about 5.1 seconds
z06 has a 0-60 of about 4.4 seconds
Both of these numbers have been tested by the likes of Car and Driver and Motor Trend.
This is a silly arguement when you actaully look at the numbers below.
True the corvette is about 300 lbs heavier but generating over 100 lbs more torque would EASILY overcome this.
Corvette z06
3,223 pounds
385.0 bhp @ 6000 rpm
Max Torque 385.0 ft lbs @ 4800 rpm
EVO 7
2,940 Pounds
280 bhp @ 6500 rpm
Max torque: 282 lb ft at 3500 rpm
There you have it folks…
And I wont even talk about what a Viper would do to either one of these cars!!
Nate, I understand you are an import tuner, and there are some good features on those cars (size and power are not among those features), but you really need to take out a Mustang, the Cobra or a chipped and charged GT, or any F body with an SS grade package, stock. Give it a spin. You will be fucking shocked at what those cars, which actually handle as well as the mid range Audis and BMWs IF you know how to drive a front engine rear wheel car. Those cars are destroyed from a racing stand point by a Vette, the quarter mile on the Vette and Vipers are not that great compared to the real muscle only cars, but they are out and out race cars. Most Ferraries cannot keep up with a Vette, nothing out of Japan can do jack with a stock Vette, let alone a kitted z06.
I used to think the Stangs and Camaros were floatty boats until I really let one rip, they are scarry when you go from 45 - 90 and the rear wheels are still gripping and asking for more.