T Nation

Immigration - Legal and Otherwise

Agreed, which is what we, as a nation, did with immigration 100 years ago. Edit: I’m really not opposed to making it easier! Just make sure there is a process for assimilating.

Right, which is why…

From what l experienced, there are enough workers in offices to fill any and all jobs in the US.

Tons of staff doing very little productive activity - meetings to discuss having meetings, memos/emails to rehash, clarify, and ask questions from meetings because there was no agenda at said meetings, endless frigging endless info gathering/metrics, and of course zillions of hours covertly playing candy crush or facebooking.

Now there might need to be some education to get an employee up to speed for an unknown task, but if the military can take average Joe from high schooler to nuclear technician, aircraft mechanic, or helicopter pilot; so can US companies. People will rise to your expectation, if guided properly.

Edit Companies love education, except when they are ones who should be doing it.

The military does not take the average recruit into those jobs.

We could have a program for farm workers just like they do for tech workers. LEGAL work visas. There are a whole hell of a lot of illegals who never step foot on a farm. I’m willing to be most live in cities.

Isn’t that H2A?

But that would cost employers more.

This is already being done. It actually started under the Obama administration, but with the advent of sanctuary cities, the effect was nullified.

This idea that they will do jobs americans won’t is b.s. It also dehuminizes the immigrants as second class and demonizes Americans as arrogant assholes who think they are better than everyone else. I do not believe either is true.

The average office worker is likely on higher level than say factory employee. I just didn’t spell that out. Still think companies could take college grad with crap degree and train them into the majority of jobs - technical or otherwise. Doing a task is obviously less dependent on high intellect than doing research or advanced engineering, or such.

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I am thinking that they were sold a horseshit story that it’s easier to get in with kids. It’s also a perfect racket for sex trafficking minors.
Sex trafficking is the greatest atrocity occurring on the southern border. Controlling that border is the best shot to reduce sex trafficking.

I disagree with this. I live in a town of around 30,000 people in S.D., and several of the biggest contributors to our economy are places like manufacturing plants, a beef plant, etc. all have mostly immigrated employees. The jobs suck - long hours, no A/C, not great pay, unfair bosses, etc. and none of the locals want to work there. I’m 19, and have done manual labor jobs in the past, but I don’t want to work there. None of my peers, nor the uneducated, lazy 20 somethings wish to work there. They pick the minimum wage jobs at fast food places and Walmart. I think it’s not always the case that

rather, many Americans are lazy and feel they shouldn’t have to work very hard to get what they want.

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As a Native American, I always find these funny to throw into conversations like this. (Please, no one lose your minds - it’s a joke.)

https://external-

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I’d say this is demonstrably untrue. Just come out to western Kansas (I don’t live there but traveled many times and have good friends out there.). Meat packing plant and farm jobs are largely done by semi recent immigrants. Garden City had at one point over 30 different flags for countries of origin of students. The population is incredibly diverse. Dodge City tells a similar story. This is meat packing and farm jobs. And they are largely done by immigrants.

I can only speak for Kansas as it’s the state I know best. You don’t have tons of people from my area (closer to the Olathe/Kansas City area) talking about their dream of moving southwest and working in meat packing plants.

And this is lil old Kansas. We aren’t talking about the bigger states. Americans weren’t doing a lot of these jobs even when the economy was in the toilet at the end of GWB. I don’t think it’s because Americans are pussies. I think it’s because why work a horrendous job when you can find a better one?

Hell even Trump has said he has trouble finding American workers. Maybe that’s why he hired so many illegals?

I grew up close to Emporia Kansas which had a big meatpacking plant, a Dolly Madison plant. Emporia for a long time now has had a big Hispanic population many of them doing those jobs. I never worked at IBP the meat packing place but I knew a guy who had worked some pretty tough jobs not last two days.

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A simple google search will show you plenty of experts who completely disagree. That isn’t to say it isn’t happening as of course it is. You can google sex trafficking at the border and read the numerous experts and organizations which tell a different story than what the President is telling you. Again none of them are saying sex trafficking isn’t happening there. They are just painting a different picture from the one you are. I wish it was as simple as controlling the border stops sex trafficking.

But maybe those snipers could also shoot known sex traffickers as well as the known gang members.

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Not quite. These jobs are better than in their country. White-Americans do these jobs too, just not enough, at the current pay, to meet demand. This whole ‘dehumanizing’ shit about American jobs needs to stop. A ‘dehumanizing’ job is being forced to be in the sex-slave trade, NOT picking berries, flipping burgers or packing meat.

To some extent lazy. But really, again, the pay rate isn’t enough to incentivize people to do those jobs. If they paid more, I’m sure people would change their employment.

Why is it that individuals with masters degrees work at Starbucks for $10/hr, but won’t work in Ag for $15? The extra $5 isn’t enough incentive to have hard hands… Increase it to $25 and they might be willing.

Why would people who have jobs as you describe look for other ones? If companies have employees doing what you say goes on that’s the companies fault not the employees.

Either way I doubt these people are going to go work in the meat plants.

Like DChris said this is getting a lot better. This is one of my main areas in education administration consulting. A great number of schools are partnering with people to teach these and the message of the benefits is getting heard. Now we have some kids who would flunk out in two years of college graduating high school with certificates ready to work and make some pretty good money with no student loans.

We still push too many kids to college that shouldn’t go, but some of this is on the parents as well. Many people still view it as the only way to make it. Slowly but surely it’s a fight we’re making real progress on.

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Im not talking office workers in meat packing. Office workers trained for all of these info system and tech jobs instead of Indians with dubious degrees.

Plus cut out subsidized everything in the world, Americans will work. Or they can live in a ditch, hungry.

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https://www.huffpost.com/entry/drug-cartels-where-human-trafficking-and-human-smuggling-meet-today_b_7588408

https://www.state.gov/reports/2018-trafficking-in-persons-report/mexico/