T Nation

I'm Tired of the Labels

Wow…

The way you guys “label” people has been somewhat dissappointing to me in some recent threads…so I thought that I’d start a new one…

You guys reminded me of something that occured when I was a young voter (actually, it was my first year of being able to vote).

At the time, I was being “pushed” to be a Democrat (parental/mentor influences, etc.)…and I remember asking “Why?” (To my Dad’s dismay!)

Over time, I began to realize that I simply COULD NOT be affiliated with either of the two major parties because I simpy could not agree with many of either parties major platform stands (I don’t think that you have to agree with ALL issues of a party…but you should at least agree with their major platforms…)

So…even though it knocks me out of Primaries…I’ve been registered as “Independent” …

I’m fiscally conservative (I don’t think that throwing money at things is the answer…and by the way…Republicans know how to waste as much money as Democrats…and Visa Versa…)

Socially, I have “liberal leanings…”

So…Does that make me “Liberal”?

Does it make me “Conservative”?

Stop the labels, guys…go out and serve…try to improve the condition of the little piece of the World you live in…

But don’t look to the Goverment to do it all and pay for it all…

Support our people in Uniform…

Watch a damn good movie, and don’t try to make it some type of “political statement”…(what Hollywood people REALLY believe in is the MOOLAH…! 50 million dollars for one day of the “…Sith…”…I bet Lucas could give a rat’s ass about what you label him…except RICH!!!)

And guess what? You can label me what the hell you want…it doesn’t matter…

Mufasa

I have been saying that since I started responding in this forum. They use labels as a way of ignoring what someone has to say. I am not a liberal nor a conservative. I am comfortable financially and don’t have any major problems with larger businesses unless they encroach on the lives of those less fortunate.

Every discussion that many conservatives on this forum can’t back up immediately falls into name calling and insults…then they play the “victim” role and act as if they were innocent. It got old about a year ago.

One thing I have noticed, however, is that when someone does challenge their line of thinking in a way that actually promotes thought, suddenly there is either silence or a blatant attack. That says a lot.

Well said Mufassa.

I don’t mind the labels as much. We give them to ourselves first. My political label is way down on my list.

I am a father, husband, employer, coach, mentor and oh yeah a conservative Republican.

Labels do get old Bro!

By the way…

“Platforms” can be “official” (what is drawn up by the Party and it’s officials…)

And “unofficial”…as represented often publically by the most vocal “wings” of a Party…

Chew on that for a while…

Mufasa

Prof

Are you really saying this only happens on one side?

That only the consevatives are guilty of this?

I’m not looking for trouble, but plenty is spewed both ways around here. I’m as guilty as any, maybe most recently, but that sounds a little off base to me to say that only one side acts that way.

And it also does show which side you’re standing on to make such a comment. You don’t want to be labeled, but feel perfectly comfortable both labeling and bashing someone in the same post.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Watch a damn good movie, and don’t try to make it some type of “political statement”…(what Hollywood people REALLY believe in is the MOOLAH…! 50 million dollars for one day of the “…Sith…”…I bet Lucas could give a rat’s ass about what you label him…except RICH!!!)[/quote]

I just felt like quoting this seperately. Apparently, some on this forum believe this to not be the case and that movies are only made if they have a liberal agenda (even if it is hard to see). If movies about strict “conservative ideals” made money, there would be tons of them. Also, a movie about an event, even if it mirrors an event that “liberal groups” find an issue with, does not make that movie a political statement unless that was the soul reason why that movie was produced. The “liberal conspiracy” seems to be everywhere that they look for it.

What I can’t stand are those that are offended by labels. Grow the hell up. Everyone labels, and is labeled. It’s part of our society.

From the shoes you wear to the drivel that flows out of your mouth (right or left wing) you are labeled.

The T-Gods even asked us to label who we are wrt training in a recent poll.

Personally - if you don’t like the label you have, change what you’re doing, wearing, or saying. You can’t walk like a duck and quack like a duck and then be offended because someone calls you a duck.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
What I can’t stand are those that are offended by labels. Grow the hell up. Everyone labels, and is labeled. It’s part of our society. [/quote]

That doesn’t make it right. Stereotypes are everywhere. Does that mean that is the way things should be done and that no one should change it? I have no doubt that the majority of the people who see me for the first time form the wrong stereotype about me. If your label is who you are, fine. Wear your label proudly. If it doesn’t suit you and doesn’t fit who you are or what you are about, you are saying it should simply be accepted?

My label: BASTARD

I wear it with pride… maybe it would be nice if people saw past the labels every now and then?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
That doesn’t make it right. Stereotypes are everywhere. Does that mean that is the way things should be done and that no one should change it?[/quote]

Gimmee a freakin break. No one is trying to change anything. This is just another attempt by the PC ploice to stop freedom of expression. I don’t know what is so wrong about labels. Especially in the political arena. It is part and parcel to our system. You stereotype as much as anyone on here, and now you’re carrying the flag for tolerance?

Tell me another one.

Do those that stereotype you wrongly even know you? Then why do you give a shit? If you know who you are, what difference does it make what some stranger thinks about you?

Grow the hell up, and quit worrying about what other people think. For God’s sake this is T-Nation, not E-Nation.

There are some folks who need to get up off the couch and turn The Oprah Show off

[quote]Professor X wrote:

That doesn’t make it right. Stereotypes are everywhere. Does that mean that is the way things should be done and that no one should change it? I have no doubt that the majority of the people who see me for the first time form the wrong stereotype about me. If your label is who you are, fine. Wear your label proudly. If it doesn’t suit you and doesn’t fit who you are or what you are about, you are saying it should simply be accepted? [/quote]

I agree. Stop it with the racism professor x.

Hahahahaha! Do you actually believe that? Oh my!

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Gimmee a freakin break. No one is trying to change anything. This is just another attempt by the PC ploice to stop freedom of expression. I don’t know what is so wrong about labels. [/quote]

Not applying labels is an attempt to STOP freedom of expression? What the fuck?

[quote]Cream wrote:
I agree. Stop it with the racism professor x.[/quote]

Dude, your little game was played out the first time you tried it. How about you stop and then we’ll go from there. Until then, stay on topic with a thread and try coming up with at least one original thought.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Not applying labels is an attempt to STOP freedom of expression? What the fuck?[/quote]

Labels have been used since the beginning of time. It’s part of our nature to do that.

Please explain how labels interfere with your freedom of expression? That is utter nonsense. If you are going to be silenced because of a label - you either have absolutely nothing to say, or your convictions are so weak that you should not say anything in the first place.

No one is shutting you up by labeling you. You have the right to express yourself. You have no right whatsoever that guarantees anyone will listen to you.

If you are telling someone to shut up - i.e. the estogen filled cries of stopping mean people from labeling you - you are the one trying to take a person’s right of expression away from them.

Now run along, read half of what I wrote, and come back when you have fashioned an entirely unrelated argument out of what you think I just said.

What’s Wrong With “Labels”?

RJ:

You are an intelligent guy…I can’t believe that you asked that question and asked it seriously…

Where do you even BEGIN with that question?

Labels almost ALWAYS have underneath them preconceived notions about what a person is, what they believe and what they stand for. And usually if someone spits out a label the way some of you guys have (and on many of the religion threads), you can rest assured that those labels DO NOT have a positive connotation, and leads one to:

  1. Judge another unfairly and unjustly.

  2. They shut off any meaningful discussion and or debate because one often feels that they “know” what another person believes, stands for, and supports.

  3. Politically it’s a disaster…as “conservative” or “liberal” politicians fall prey to the extemes of their parties…get off on “tangent”, often devisive, issues…and fail to discuss issues that are of dire importance to the nation as a whole…

The list could go on…

A label isn’t just a “word”, RJ…it has underneath it prejudices, judgements, and often hate-filled rhetoric that only divides us and keeps us from working on common ground…

And guess what? Things like “listening”, “understanding”, “cooperation”…serving others… and being non-judgemental ARE “grown-up”…and don’t have a DAMN thing to do with being “PC”…

Mufasa

[quote]rainjack wrote:

Please explain how labels interfere with your freedom of expression? [/quote]

Ok, labels are used by many as a mental block. It allows someone to quickly throw you into a box and, as such, give less credit to your individual thoughts by simply applying what they already think you stand for regardless of the truth.

It isn’t so much a direct negative towards freedom of expression but an indirect by decreasing the value of the stance of an individual. I am not anyone else. I don’t think like anyone else. To group me along with everyone else is a clear attempt to devalue what is actually said. It is one reason some ideas have to be restated on this forum over and over before others grasp what is being said. You can look at the “Air America” thread and see that. People don’t listen. They won’t even bother reading the post because they have already applied a label. Then, 15 posts later, it finally begins to sink in. Was that clear enough?

you guys are killin me.
Just not fast enough, dammit.

Mufasa -

The entire political arena is predicated on labels. Liberal. Conservative. Right-wing. Left-wing. Republican. Democrat. None of those labels are prejudiced words. None of those labels carry with them the baggage that you claim. They are labels.

The use of labels, more precisely, the overuse of labels reveals the ignorance of the labeler. Especially so if there is an abscence of proof to support his position.

I fail to see any instance where the use of reflects badly on the labelee. If one is that concerned about how he is percieved, then either he is lacking in conviction, pr substance.

My personal feeling is that labels don’t bother me at all. I’ve been labeled as just about everything you can be called here on T-Nation. Like you said in your closing statemen in your first post - call me what ever you want, I don’t care. I know who I am. I stand behind every position I take with enough conviction that my feelings won’t be hurt if I am called any plethera of names. I know this is true - I seen it happen.

The only caveat I would include is when it comes to hate-based labeling. I get really upset when ignorance overflows into bigotry.

I think the difference between our stances is that of practicality. Labeling exists. Labeling in and of itself is not inherently evil - and try as you might, it will be a part of the human condition way after you and I have become worm food.

If you want to protest something protest ignorance. Protest stupidity. These are rampant in all societies. But I think you miss the mark when you make the use of labels the scapegoat.

Or if you want to support a truly lofty ideal, I am starting a “Teach ProfessorX how to Read” fund.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:

Please explain how labels interfere with your freedom of expression?

Ok, labels are used by many as a mental block. It allows someone to quickly throw you into a box and, as such, give less credit to your individual thoughts by simply applying what they already think you stand for regardless of the truth.

It isn’t so much a direct negative towards freedom of expression but an indirect by decreasing the value of the stance of an individual. I am not anyone else. I don’t think like anyone else. To group me along with everyone else is a clear attempt to devalue what is actually said. It is one reason some ideas have to be restated on this forum over and over before others grasp what is being said. You can look at the “Air America” thread and see that. People don’t listen. They won’t even bother reading the post because they have already applied a label. Then, 15 posts later, it finally begins to sink in. Was that clear enough?[/quote]

What harm did that do to you? How was your freedom encroached upon? I asked you how labels interfered with your freedom of expression. You gave me no proof that your right to express yourself was infringed upon. You have no right to be heard. None.

The Air-America thread is full of posts authored by you. How was your right to express yourself infringed upon in that thread? Looks to me like you were expressing the hell out of yourself.

Try again.