T Nation

I'm Scared to Death of TRT


#163

Personally, I think its too much anti-E. Sounds like your Doc is over medicating you.

You are taking Oral Test? Is this correct?


#164

Oh hell no. When I switch to testosterone, I’ll do injections. Right now I’m on 25 mg clomid. I’m probably just going to switch to 1 mg a week like he originally suggested before. My first doctor had me on 1 mg every other day. My new doctor or your ago suggested that I do 1 mg a week. I wonder if 1 mg a week is still too high


#165

Depending on your dose, you might not need anything. I cruise at 250 mg Test/week and I dont run any anti-E. When I blast, I run 20 mg Nolvadex.


#166

What is the general consensus understood average level that E2 should be? Iv read mixed things. 50 too high, 8-16 too low and even 22 being ok


#167

That brother, is the question of the year and had been debated greatly lately. Our resident endo/bodybuilder/steroid guru @physioLojik advocates that high estrogen in the presence of high testosterone is the desired goal. That E has many benefits to libido, bone density, muscle growth, etc. It is only when E is high and Test is low that treatment needs to happen. He hates Arimidex and only prescribes Nolvadex.

Read this:


#168

Wow 6000. He musta felt like a pimp at cinderellas ball. Nice. I feel decent at 700. But right now clomid has be at 460. At the same dose 30lbs ago it used to hit 600. I guess the AI and my new fat knocked it down abit. I always read high e2 contributes to prostate cancer risk.


#169

Here’s another good one to read.


#170

Wow thats some complicated systems. Ha, im totally not super human like that. Im just a regular fat dude. :confused:


#171

Gotta educate yourself. If you stay on this board, you’ll get there.


#172

Do you have any white blood cell issues by chance?


#173

Being a pharmacist myself I can say I have a good understanding of HRT and half lives of the drugs prescribed. The issues with clomid are

  • its estrogenic isomer that has a very long half life thus piles up over time

  • linked to the above, a vast increase in SHBG due to estrogenic activity at the liver

  • linked to the above, a vast decrease in free hormone levels, meaning that your total E2 means something completely different compared to the total E2 in a SERM free individual let alone in a steroid user

  • using total levels of Test is kinda misleading when using Deca since Deca can be showing as Test on a bloodwork (labwork dependent)

What to do:

  • drop the arimidex… using an AI will decrease total e2 which will look good on paper but you must have zilch free e2 on your current regimen. I’ve seen the pinned topics in here recommending the use of an AI with SERMs but I disagree with such a practice. Plus we don’t chase numbers we want to feel good. Your extremely slow recovery screams low e2.

  • space out clomid doses to twice weekly as per some HRT doctors protocols like Crisler Saya etc. Eventually ask your Doctor for another SERM which WILL maintain your total T anyway, sans estrogenic isomers

  • do eat eggs, your LDL as shown above is damn low, drop the starchy foods keep whole fruit in and eat more protein and fats. I kinda vouch for 50/25/25% if not 60/20/20% but in your case with your triglycerides you may wanna try 33/33/33


#174

Well according to doctors reports no I don’t have anything like that as far as I know. White cell count


#175

I don’t know if I can space Clomid out because my total T is already below 500.


#176

It’s not how it works… you’re maxed out because of the estrogenic isomer piling on over time and your levels will stay there no matter what you do. The more clomid the more estrogen. Less is better; weaning off of a drug with an objectively detrimental isomer is best.

Using Clomid every day is an outdated practice, half lives are clearly established now. Look up forums like Excelmale Peaktestosterone etc. And ask more questions there if you think that I sound like one single crazy mofo on a forum that isn’t usually keen on low doses of SERMs


#178

What was ur LH and FSH on clomid? That’s an indication if you have room to increase t while on clomid.

If FSH is already high and u increase clomid = not good.

But what tonton is saying is right. Some who decrease their clomid dose and space apart actually see a better response. I have read this about other guys.

I used clomid. Felt good for a few weeks then down hill. 1 thing that clomid did was I had some shooting ejaculations. I miss those. But that could have been because prior my t and e2 was low.


#179

LH: 15.2
FSH: 27.0

25 mg clomid everyday. I’ve done this for the last two years. Been on Clomid since mid 2014. I too also noticed that incredible feel good feeling that lasted probably three weeks before just going down to meh Territory. I often wonder if that Goldilocks zone awesome feeling is something more consistent and normal with TRT?


#180

Everyone is different. I was a horny person prior to trt and still am. Loads are nothing to report. Unless I edge for a while then it may shoot.
Either way my orgasms are pretty intense.

With that high LH FSH. You should probably lower dose and space out. And I don’t think you will see an decrease in free t.

I never spoke with someone who’s been on clomid for so long.


#181

Ha well trt is a big sucker to swallow. Only recently have i began to take it more seriously. I have a 1 year old daughter that out paces me in energy and now i found out a month ago we have twins on the way. Iv got to solve my mood and energy issues. Cant be that moody dad that yells at his wife for stupid shit. :/. Though i did find out my current doc gives some men trt even with low grade cancer.

The BIGGEST hold back has been fear of being taken off in 20 years for some dumb slow growing prostate cancer. With the litterature available now, i still dont understand the old habbits of doctors.


#182

Wdym? NVM. I see your point.

Congratulations on the twins! I have twin boys. Identical. Do you know if they are fraternal or identical? If identical switch to a maternal-fetal obgyn. That is high risk.

Do you live in NY?


#183

Oh nice. Mine are faternal. Wife is only 2 months in. Really hoping for all girls. Dunno why, there just easier for me. I live in San Diego.