T Nation

I'm Ready to Join the Dark Side

Please have mercy! I’m looking to do my first cycle ever as soon as my home gym is set up in a couple months and I get my big 3 back to where I was. I’m asking this in advance because I want to be prepared. Let me preface this by saying I have done a lot of reading/research on AAS, but I am hoping that by telling you guys my stats, strength, and available choices I can get some opinions on what would likely work best for me.

31 years old, 5’6", 197 lbs. Last time I tested my maxes was mid-march right before the shutdown (I tested all 3 because I knew it’d be a long time before I could max out again).

615 deadlift, 370 bench (yeah I know it sucks), and 570 back squat.

Being prepared, I already bought a bunch of Nolvadex. I have NEVER done a steroid, prohormone, SARM, etc. Luckily I have a local connect I trust and know very well (we go back a long time) to get real gear from. Right now I have a choice of test E, d-bol, deca, and winstrol. So my questions:

  1. Should I keep it simple and just stick with test E or should I maybe kick start it with d-bol the first 3 weeks or so? I’d be open to winstrol, but I am pretty opposed to deca given the horror stories of deca dick.
  2. Assuming I just do test E with maybe a bit of d-bol, how long should my cycle be?
  3. How much test E should I be using a week? To that point, once a week or twice a week injection?
  4. What’s a good cycle duration for my first time?
  5. I know Nolvadex as PCT is typically recommended as 40/40/20/20, but should I consider doing any while on cycle proactively or just only add it on cycle if I experience symptoms of gyno starting?
  6. While using Nolvadex for PCT, would it help to take something like Alpha Male too in order to help boost my test naturally or would that just be redundant?

Just as an aside, if I do use d-bol to kick start I know it’s rough on the liver, but I already take a ton of milk thistle/NAC/turmeric because I used to have fatty liver (not from booze, I barely ever drink), this combination actually reversed it and now my liver enzymes are all good.

Thank you all in advance for your guidance, I appreciate it.

Your lifts show that you know how to train. Are you looking to do a powerlifting meet? If it is me, I would just stick with test and dbol. With your strength I would stay away from winny as it is hard on most people’s joints. Deca has lots of downsides, but works well. I would see how well you do without it, and you can always add it for future cycles.

Yeah your lifts totally suck bro…:roll_eyes::roll_eyes::roll_eyes:


I’m disappointed in my bench, I just feel it’s crap and it’s the only lift of the main 3 that I regress on. For example, when I hit 330, later on I was struggling to get 310, then I had to work back up. This was after no drop off in training, so benching gives me a “wtf” type reaction. I’m very happy with my DL/squat.

Yes, and I’ve caught a lot of flack for not doing a meet yet but my belief has been, and still is, that if I do a meet, I want a real shot at 1st place. I know I hear the “get the meet experience”, but it’s just not how I’m wired. I want to win, I’m not after a participation trophy. I’ll of course do an untested meet and not be one of those douchebags that dishonors the sport.

I was thinking the same with test/d-bol, I’ve heard the same about Winstrol and joint pain. Deca - I like sex very much, so I don’t need any issues there with my dick.

Any thoughts on test dosage/duration of the cycle? Should my d-bol use be limited to ~first 3 weeks given liver toxicity? Also, is 4 weeks of nolva as PCT enough or should I extend that to 5 or 6? Thanks again for your reply.

Depends on if you sign up for a meet. If you do, I would try to have the meet be towards the end of the cycle, and do the dbol at the end. That way your meet gets the benefits of the dbol gains. I have an acquaintance that takes dbol by the handful on meet day. Also has squatted 925 in the 242 weight class in wraps.

Winning a meet depends on who is there. High level lifters still do low level meets.

I started competing very early in my training, and I think I’m stronger than if I hadn’t gone that route. Just try to have fun. You can always do more meets. You are a bit stronger than I am (quite a bit in the squat though), and I hold my own just fine (I’ve won my weight class twice in untested, one of which I was still Natty). Many Natty lifters compete untested as it is usually cheaper and less hassle, and some meets are only untested.

Wow 925, that’s badass! Good point on the dbol, interesting.

It counted, but in my opinion it was high. Still crazy though. Dude is nuts though. Worked out with him a couple times. He wrapped my knees and I thought I was going to die. Left my state due to an arrest warrant.

Did he kill someone with his knee wrapping?


I’d keep it simple like the guys have said. Test E would be my suggestion. I’ve never used Dbol so can’t comment on it. Nolva on cycle only if you experience real gyno issues, otherwise when you start your PCT. I’d stay away from winny and deca for now.

10-12 weeks on should work well. I’m not a fan of big doses and 375 to 500mg/week seems to be the first cycle “norm”. Personally I prefer twice weekly shots.

You’ll need about 4 weeks to bridge into PCT. I’d use something during that time to keep you anabolic. By week 3 the T is almost cleared and your natural system is still shutdown, it’s not the best way to maximize your cycle gain and keep them.


Ok I’ll answer systematically but I want pics to prove no troll. Your height, weight, and age are all very close to mine. I may just be jealous but your lifts crush mine.

  1. Stick with test E and add dbol toward the end only if you stall
  2. 10-12 weeks, pick your poison
  3. 250mg two times per week for a total of 500mg
  4. Same as #2
  5. Probably not necessary
  6. No, Alpha Male and all that booster shit is snake oil
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Thank you guys for the replies! I’m not going to be doing this cycle for quite a while (no point until I’m back where I was naturally) but you’ve all been nice enough to answer my questions. Much appreciated!

Normally I’d suggest dbol only to new starters, mainly because they say they are 100% committed to bodybuilding and you find out they aren’t eating properly or training right or as I like to refer to them as “bicep boys”.

You however are already lifting a good amount of weight so I’m assuming you already have everything else in place, solid routine and diet.

Most of the strongmen I know use test with dbol&oxies or just one type of orals, 30 mins or so before they work out they take their tablets as it helps improve their lifts.

Now as for test, I’ve always been a short ester kind of guy so it’s down to personal preference.

I’d do 300mg of test p a week inject 100mg Monday/Wednesday /Friday for 6-8 weeks.

50mg of dbol a day and even in the future I’d stay on test p, dbol but increase my usage when needed.

I like oxies as well but they are a personal preference a lot of people say they lose all their gains when they come off them, that’s mainly because it’s “bicep boys” that take them and their diet and training is shocking, so if you have a solid diet and routine yes you will lose water weight but you don’t take oxies because you want lean muscle you take them because they make you strong as hell, which in turn means you lift heavier and by doing so get stronger and gain muscle mass.