T Nation

I'm Ready to Cut and Run

After this crap today, I'm ready to cut and run.  If our troops aren't in control, they shouldn't be there.  If our commanders on the ground can't do what they feel is best, it's time to leave:

Iraqi PM Ends Some Joint Checkpoints
BAGHDAD, Iraq(AP)

Exploiting GOP vulnerability in the Nov. 7 elections, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki flexed his political muscle Tuesday and won U.S. agreement to lift military blockades on Sadr City and another Shiite enclave where an American soldier was abducted.

U.S. forces, who had set up the checkpoints in Baghdad last week as part of an unsuccessful search for the soldier, drove away in Humvees and armored personnel carriers at the 5 p.m. deadline set by al-Maliki. Iraqi troops, who had manned the checkpoints with the Americans, loaded coils of razor wire and red traffic cones onto pickup trucks.

Their departure set off celebrations among civilians and armed men in Sadr City, the sprawling Shiite district controlled by the Mahdi Army militia loyal to anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Small groups of men and children danced in circles chanting slogans praising and declaring victory for al-Sadr, whose political support is crucial to the prime minister’s governing coalition.

The prime minister’s challenge to U.S. conduct of the war was the latest in a series of acts designed to force the American hand and test Washington’s readiness to give him a greater say in securing the world’s most violent capital.

Al-Maliki finds himself in a maze of conflicting political pressures. After the Bush administration unveiled a plan last week for Iraq’s government to adopt timelines for progress, especially in curbing violence, al-Maliki accused Washington of infringing on national sovereignty. There was no doubt he was talking tough to show both the Americans and his political base that he would not be pushed around.

The prime minister has further said that he feels stanching bloodshed might be better handled by Iraqi forces, although the argument does not wash given the present state of his military.

[quote]doogie wrote:
After this crap today, I’m ready to cut and run. If our troops aren’t in control, they shouldn’t be there. If our commanders on the ground can’t do what they feel is best, it’s time to leave…[/quote]

Welcome to planet Earth. Please enjoy your stay.

yeah, what a shame. I wish we could stay there forever. sniff, sniff, damn.

Welcome to the dark side…when’s that chopper take off from Saigon?

Sorry, I meant Baghdad?

I support continuing the training and equiping of Iraqi security forces, until military leaders are satisfied with their ability. And as that process happens, the continued turn over of regions to securtiy forces. Still do not support (and never will) cutting and running.

[quote]vroom wrote:
doogie wrote:
After this crap today, I’m ready to cut and run. If our troops aren’t in control, they shouldn’t be there. If our commanders on the ground can’t do what they feel is best, it’s time to leave…

Welcome to planet Earth. Please enjoy your stay.[/quote]

Understand I still think we were right to go in. I just don’t want our troops being ordered around by the Iraqi Prime Minister to protect his friends.

[quote]doogie wrote:
Understand I still think we were right to go in. I just don’t want our troops being ordered around by the Iraqi Prime Minister to protect his friends.[/quote]

Good thing the administration stopped using the phrase “stay the course” recently…

I wouldn’t mind keeping a brigade in Kurdistan/Nineveh province if they wanted us. I have a lot of respect for the Kurds and they have no friendly nations to them in the area. The Muslims and Christians in Kurdistan get along great.

But the Sunni and Shia arabs in Iraq are disturbing. I really believe they are a lost cause when it comes to being a democratic society that respects the minority.

I don’t know of any official plans or preparations for a pull-out, but the changing the stay the course phrase, along with the Baker recommondations indicate a major shift in policy and possibly a pullout is on the near term horizon. And it wouldn’t break my heart at all.

[quote]vroom wrote:
doogie wrote:
Understand I still think we were right to go in. I just don’t want our troops being ordered around by the Iraqi Prime Minister to protect his friends.

Good thing the administration stopped using the phrase “stay the course” recently…[/quote]

By the way, what is Canada doing to keep itself safe from terrorism? Do you even realize that if it were not for us, you people up there would be quite vunerable?

“Cut and run” is for cowards and for those who don’t have the stomach to do what is necessary to restore order and democracy in that part of the world. The terrorists are banking on narrow minded people like you and others to allow them to continue their reign of terror and to export terror all over the world – yes, even to Canada!

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
By the way, what is Canada doing to keep itself safe from terrorism? Do you even realize that if it were not for us, you people up there would be quite vunerable?

“Cut and run” is for cowards and for those who don’t have the stomach to do what is necessary to restore order and democracy in that part of the world. The terrorists are banking on narrow minded people like you and others to allow them to continue their reign of terror and to export terror all over the world – yes, even to Canada![/quote]

You mean other than stirring up hornets in Afghanistan?

It’s really sad that you have so few brain cells in there…

Anyhow, be careful Steveo, the administration is on the verge of declaring victory and pulling out at the request of the Iraqi government, so watch out or you’ll be caught “off-stance” if you aren’t careful.

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
By the way, what is Canada doing to keep itself safe from terrorism?
[/quote]
Besides being a country founded on the rule of law, with a constitution and democratically elected government?

How about having a police force with the ability to root out terrorist threats (such as the terrorists caught before they could attack in Ontario)?

Seems that the RCMP and CSIS have a working relationship and an open line of communication with the US to protect both countries (hence the deportation of a number of citizens suspected of having ties to terrorism…not all guilty unfortunately).

Or how about the war we’re involved with in Afghanistan, demonstrating that rogue regimes that train terrorists aren’t going to be tolerated? Your memory so short you forgot about that little war?

Canadians have fought and died (and continue to do so) for the safety of our country and that of other countries. I can’t think of a single instance of a war we started and asked for the US’s help.

We’re safe because you choose to have the most powerful military in the world, it’s called geography. We’re fortunate to be positioned where we are, but we certainly don’t owe you anything for that good fortune.

Anyway, I digress.

As to the OP, hopefully this is a sign that Iraq is getting ready to stand on its own…for better or worse. You can only do so much.

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
vroom wrote:
doogie wrote:
Understand I still think we were right to go in. I just don’t want our troops being ordered around by the Iraqi Prime Minister to protect his friends.

Good thing the administration stopped using the phrase “stay the course” recently…

By the way, what is Canada doing to keep itself safe from terrorism? Do you even realize that if it were not for us, you people up there would be quite vunerable?

“Cut and run” is for cowards and for those who don’t have the stomach to do what is necessary to restore order and democracy in that part of the world. The terrorists are banking on narrow minded people like you and others to allow them to continue their reign of terror and to export terror all over the world – yes, even to Canada![/quote]

So, do they let you out of the straight jacket to type this shit, or do you just dictate it?

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
By the way, what is Canada doing to keep itself safe from terrorism? Do you even realize that if it were not for us, you people up there would be quite vunerable?

“Cut and run” is for cowards and for those who don’t have the stomach to do what is necessary to restore order and democracy in that part of the world. The terrorists are banking on narrow minded people like you and others to allow them to continue their reign of terror and to export terror all over the world – yes, even to Canada![/quote]

Wake up, Minister Moonbat. Nothing is going to happen to Canada. Ever. No terrorist will even think about harming a Canadian citizen. Why not? Because Canada hasn’t been trying to boss around the entire world. Canada doesn’t have troops stationed in 136 countries, and all over the Middle East.

You fuck with people long enough, and you get fucked back. It’s a simple ideology for a simple mind, and yet – inexplicably – you and others of your kind don’t seem to get it. Actually, I know the explanation. It is that you are woefully ignorant of the shit that your government has perpetrated on other countries for the past century or longer. You subscribe to the IDIOTIC notion that 9/11 was unprovoked and that America has been acting in self-defense. You are highly uninformed.

“Contrary to what [President George W.] Bush says and claims - that we hate freedom - let him tell us then, Why did we not attack Sweden?’” -Bin Laden

Why not, indeed? The terrorists aren’t going to attack Sweden. Or Switzerland. Or Poland. Or Canada. On this, I’d bet a million dollars.

They’re going to come after America, the tyrant state. They’re going to come after Israel, the tyrant puppet state (although these days, it’s becoming increasingly difficult to tell the puppet apart from its master). And they’re going to go after England, the original tyrant state.

Ah, I just used the word “tyrant”. Now I can guarantee that you’ve got an itch to inject some stupid morality into this discussion. Perhaps lecture me that I should “go live somewhere else” if I consider this country to be a tyranny. I’ll save you the trouble: The country is a tyranny, but not to ME – to the people living in the Middle East.

Therefore, while I have no reason to move out, the oppressed people residing in the ME have plenty of reason to fight against the occupation. Simple, huh? You see, morality is 100% objective, because morality comes from human sources. It is entirely a human creation. There’s no universal morality that can be applied to you as well as some Arab.

Unless, of course, you want to call Darwinism a morality. And Darwinism says that you and your country are fucked. Canadians will stand by and watch the train wreck.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

Wake up, Minister Moonbat. Nothing is going to happen to Canada. Ever. No terrorist will even think about harming a Canadian citizen. Why not? Because Canada hasn’t been trying to boss around the entire world. Canada doesn’t have troops stationed in 136 countries, and all over the Middle East.

You fuck with people long enough, and you get fucked back. It’s a simple ideology for a simple mind, and yet – inexplicably – you and others of your kind don’t seem to get it. Actually, I know the explanation. It is that you are woefully ignorant of the shit that your government has perpetrated on other countries for the past century or longer. You subscribe to the IDIOTIC notion that 9/11 was unprovoked and that America has been acting in self-defense. You are highly uninformed.[/quote]

Setting aside that your ‘it’s our fault they attack us’, which has been addressed repeatedly, try and at least keep up on the news before you blather your nonsense:

Toronto terror plot foiled – Canada

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/06/03/canada.terror/index.html

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
vroom wrote:
doogie wrote:
Understand I still think we were right to go in. I just don’t want our troops being ordered around by the Iraqi Prime Minister to protect his friends.

Good thing the administration stopped using the phrase “stay the course” recently…

By the way, what is Canada doing to keep itself safe from terrorism? Do you even realize that if it were not for us, you people up there would be quite vunerable?

“Cut and run” is for cowards and for those who don’t have the stomach to do what is necessary to restore order and democracy in that part of the world. The terrorists are banking on narrow minded people like you and others to allow them to continue their reign of terror and to export terror all over the world – yes, even to Canada![/quote]

F**king moron pissing on the sacrafices canadian soldiers are making in afghanistan,jeebus you really are an idiot.

All you guys should stop picking on the retard. steve0 can’t help it. Best just to ignore these little outbursts.

Okay. So the U.S. ‘cuts and runs’. Then what? I’d like to hear the good things that you see happening as a result:

  1. What does Al Queda do?
  2. What happens in Iraq?
  3. What’s the fallout for the U.S.? Is the U.S. more safe or less so?

If we can criticize, we can give alternatives, right?

[quote]100meters wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
vroom wrote:
doogie wrote:
Understand I still think we were right to go in. I just don’t want our troops being ordered around by the Iraqi Prime Minister to protect his friends.

Good thing the administration stopped using the phrase “stay the course” recently…

By the way, what is Canada doing to keep itself safe from terrorism? Do you even realize that if it were not for us, you people up there would be quite vunerable?

“Cut and run” is for cowards and for those who don’t have the stomach to do what is necessary to restore order and democracy in that part of the world. The terrorists are banking on narrow minded people like you and others to allow them to continue their reign of terror and to export terror all over the world – yes, even to Canada!

F**king moron pissing on the sacrafices canadian soldiers are making in afghanistan,jeebus you really are an idiot.[/quote]

Does that same logic apply to what John Kerry said about American soldiers? Or does your empathy for the soldier only extend to those NOT wearing the American flag?

[quote]Hack Wilson wrote:
Okay. So the U.S. ‘cuts and runs’. Then what? I’d like to hear the good things that you see happening as a result:

  1. What does Al Queda do?
  2. What happens in Iraq?
  3. What’s the fallout for the U.S.? Is the U.S. more safe or less so?

If we can criticize, we can give alternatives, right?[/quote]

I’m all for setting up bases in the north and letting the military sweep in and clean house when needed. That’s what the military is for.

It’s this policing at the whim of the Iraqi PM that is intolerable.

[quote]Hack Wilson wrote:
Does that same logic apply to what John Kerry said about American soldiers? Or does your empathy for the soldier only extend to those NOT wearing the American flag?[/quote]

Yeah, we all know the president has never mangled a statement during public speaking.

Have you heard what he meant to say, but goofed? Howabout sticking to real topics - most the time you are starting to do a reasonable job of it.

On a different note, there is a slight difference between home-grown terrorists spawned on their own versus externally derived terrorist attacks.

So, although Canada is on the list (presumably due to early and ongoing Afghanistan participation), I do agree that it is probably in fact a much lower priority target.